Brian Berry beats Shibaji Datta

[big ears]

No worries, I think its hard to judge peoples feelings on here sometime. We all get a little swept up in our own thoughts and ideas too.

I think that applies to our own thoughts about our TT too. Think about this:

Biggy is proud of his achievements in TT and the depth of class in his own country for both a parochial reason, but also because the stronger his competition is, the more impressive his achievements are. Nothing wrong with some self-pride (ego), but I'll come back to this.

Rob is proud of his achievements in TT and where he as gotten to through hard work and dedication. However, in recognising that (which he has) Biggy has always felt the need to qualify Rob's achievements by putting Rob into a UK setting and saying how much lower he would be there than here. Any suggestion by Rob that he might stand a chance of making a decent match with Biggy therefore makes Biggy feel that such a statement must be false (and if not it has some mental impact that it would reduce Biggy's standing somehow.

I am proud of my own achievements in TT given the number of grades I have climbed since coming back to TT with many health problems and actually way surpassing anything I dreamed I would achieve when I first came back 4 years ago. But my achievements to Biggy, and maybe even Rob are nothing compared to theirs. So to Biggy I am trash who could never be compared to him and to Rob, I am just a friendly guy who isn't quite in his league.

The point I am trying to make here is that we all play a game called Tabletennis and we all come from different walks of life. Supachop, Honey, Blue, Der, JT, Blocker, PF_4, and anyone else you care to mention has their own story and their own set of achievements. And those achievements are just as important to each individual as Biggy's is to him, or Rob's is to him. Yet there is an argument that goes on here that tries to belittle people's achievements the less impressive they are. Why? Because it somehow cuts down someone's ego to really acknowledge someone else is doing well. The fact is we all need each other (talking about the world of TT players) or the game would cease to exist. Maybe its time there was some more thought and discussion put to that idea rather than stroking just one's own ego, or that of one's own country? BTW, Supachop is the only one who has told me he has no ego, which is why he doesn't take part in the discussions of it. I don't believe he has no ego, but I do believe he has well learned to enjoy the game and leave his ego at the door when he plays TT (and makes his sparse forum comments). Shame more can't do that! (Rant over).

 What is interesting here, is if you read 'Crispionie's' post half way down this page;

http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4715-London-area-Vets

he states;

'Wiggy is being generous as usual' when regarding my thoughts on BB's standard, generous as usual Hardly the words to discribe the egomaniac Reb makes me out to be. On the other hand, the guys on that forum know me personally.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I don't know you on that forum Biggy. I only know the persona you primarily put across on this forum (and the one you put as Dark Horse on OOAK, and to a much lesser degree what I saw on DTTW). I did read that comment on the link you provided, but it doesn't coincide with the way you present yourself here (as being generous about someone else's level). If you really are like that, why do you come across as the "egomaniac" (your term not mine, but if the cap fits...) on this forum? Is it just you entertaining yourself then?

You have known me as much on the forum's I've mentioned as I've known you. Have I come across as different personalities on the different forums? I would be aghast if anyone truly thought so. I can only deduce that for you, no-one could tell your true personality on any forum, if they saw them all. So quoting what your personality is on another forum doesn't really convince me of anything. It is something you have to wear for coming across with inconsistent personas. When you talked to me on DTTW, you seemed quite different to here. The way you have been here leads me to distrust the person you are and suspect the way you were at DTTW to be an act. It may not be so, but how is a person to know the real you across the web when you constantly change?

[big ears]

The people on the TTTalk forum, know me personally Reb, I've played most of them. I'm quite sure that you have had your disagreements in the past on the forums, this one is a little different for you though, you meet most of the members on it, so you are far less likely to disagree with them. What you have to understand, is the fact that someone who I know, who I've played, made that statement, NOT ME, in other words, in his opinion, I was being generous about BB's ability, and as he puts it 'as usual' so I can make the same statement on two different forums, on one I'm seen as egotistic, on the other I'm seen as generous with my praise, it just depends on where you look at it from. I'm copping a little flack right now, because everyone who agrees with my point of view, and we know who they are, have left, so I'm the guy causing all the arguments, despite the fact that its difficult to argue with ones self.

 I sent Rob a PM asking him to provide me with the proof that you have all apparently seen that the phantom poster was not him, but reading his post, he also tells me to ask 'the crew' so would you care to tell me Reb?

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I'm a little confused about whether to answer. First you say you don't want an answer from anyone but Rob, Biggy. And to me it seems Rob has asked you to PM to discuss this, so I think that's a better way to handle it. If Rob wants any of us to answer here, he better clearly state that. I don't want to fuel a fire, I'd rather suffocate it.

If the people on the TTTalk forum know the real you, why do you feel you can't be real here? I do understand having the odd disagreement (especially with people you don't really know), although I prefer to attempt to be a fixer of them than a creator of them. Its not so hard really. Its all about making people feel respected. Giving respect tends to have it returned and when discussions are then held with a level of respect, I think they are more fruitful.

The fact that you say you are having a hard time because the people who support you have gone from here shows that you still haven't realised it doesn't need to be an us versus them situation. Rob has said to you just be respectful here and you'll be welcome. It doesn't need to be an us versus them. It can just be an Us! You CAN be part of us if you so choose. And all it takes is respect. I for one, would like to see things settle down here and just be friendly and talk TT. I don't think there is a person here who doesn't recognise you CAN make good contributions Biggy. If you would just leave all the other rubbish behind. Oh, and I really think we should stop hi-jacking this thread with OT stuff...apologies for that!

[big ears]

I've already stated 1 million times it was not me, yet you failed to believe my words, basically calling me a liar.
If you want annswers Bigears, why don't you ask the other members.

 There you go Reb, clear as day.

[big ears]

If the people on the TTTalk forum know the real you, why do you feel you can't be real here? I do understand having the odd disagreement (especially with people you don't really know), although I prefer to attempt to be a fixer of them than a creator of them. Its not so hard really. Its all about making people feel respected. Giving respect tends to have it returned and when discussions are then held with a level of respect, I think they are more fruitful.

The fact that you say you are having a hard time because the people who support you have gone from here shows that you still haven't realised it doesn't need to be an us versus them situation. Rob has said to you just be respectful here and you'll be welcome. It doesn't need to be an us versus them. It can just be an Us! You CAN be part of us if you so choose. And all it takes is respect. I for one, would like to see things settle down here and just be friendly and talk TT. I don't think there is a person here who doesn't recognise you CAN make good contributions Biggy. If you would just leave all the other rubbish behind. Oh, and I really think we should stop hi-jacking this thread with OT stuff...apologies for that!

I think you overstate my 'disrespect' for lower level players, I argue against opinions true, and sometimes question the qualification of persons making statements that I consider are out of their depth, particularly if they don't back them up with logic and common sense, but by the same token, I've learned a hell of a lot about TT by listening to advice from above and not getting into conversations where I'm out of my depth, now you can take that any way you wish Reb, but if you make a statement I think is wrong, I'll probably say something, but I always back it up, the whole thing will be terse and to the point, but thats how I am, I don't do this pretend American style courtesy, If you disagree just say it is my protocol, and always will be.
On the other British forum, I still say what I think, and fall out from time to time, have a read of my post here in response to 'Leeston' who posted second down. I'm pretty sure you will agree with my comments Reb, they support your style of play.

http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2841-Less-friction-....-or-will-it-create-more&highlight=Leeston+wiggy

[pingpongrob]

I still say what I think, and fall out from time to time

I agree with what you say in your post, and most of the time I say to people "I tell it as it is" Take it or leave it, so in some ways we are similar.
I still think that sometimes you go a little overboard - showing a lot of disrespect in the way you voice your opinion.

[big ears]

I agree with what you say in your post, and most of the time I say to people "I tell it as it is" Take it or leave it, so in some ways we are similar.
I still think that sometimes you go a little overboard - showing a lot of disrespect in the way you voice your opinion.

 Thats when the 'Biggy Bitching hour is upon ye'  its a bit like being a werewolf, comes round every so often, but most have done it at some point. I'd rather have it than 'Stepford wives complicity' anyway thats just boring.

[big ears]

Last post here is interesting;

http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4715-London-area-Vets

[pingpongrob]

Last post here is interesting;

http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4715-London-area-Vets

So he say's Depth is OK, but Standard is Low.
Does he mean Vets Standard or Overall ?
Which State or Teritory did he Visit ? Hopefully it wasnt Northern Territory, maybe it was Alice Springs 
I suppose if Brian Beats Datt (Commonwealth Games medalist), and my team mate beats Brian, then this must show we have no Depth or Brians Standard is very Low or both or not (Even though he gets to the Last 16 of the world vets Championships).

This is all subjective, its all about styles, Table Tennis is All about Styles, some styles are easier to play against than others, some players read spin better than others, some players have a better thinking head than others, others move well & anticipate the ball,  ussually the ones that can do all of the above well end up having a higher ranking, doesnt mean they are better than someone, mean they are better overall, thus accumilating more ranking points.

BTW, I heard on the grapevine that the Vics point System will be overhualed - about time.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

So he say's Depth is OK, but Standard is Low.
Does he mean Vets Standard or Overall ?
Which State or Teritory did he Visit ? Hopefully it wasnt Northern Territory, maybe it was Alice Springs 

Maybe he went to the West Wyalong RSL?

Its a bit like going to China and finding them playing TT in a village here or there and saying the TT standard is quite low based on what you saw!

Sure doesn't sound like he went and saw an Aus Open!

[big ears]

Reb, the Australian open is probably the lowest national open on the planet, mainly because its so remote, so I'm afraid that is a bad example. He's not talking about the vets, he's talking about what I've been talking about all along, he can only compare to what he's used to. BTW, I don't know who he is.

[big ears]

I provided these links just to show that this is the general view of AUS TT by the English, and to show I'm not just some kind of mad idiot who just has a mission to pull Aus TT down, something I distinctly get the impression you guys think I am. It is right or wrong? but from all the evidence I have, and I know quite a few Aus players, you guys in Vic are just speculating, you don't really know, If you ask Brian Berry personally, I think you will find your answer. There are of course players In your country that are competitive at every level we can offer in the UK, but we have so many more, this really is the bit that you guys just will not understand, rankings are relevant in this, that is why Honey, though a competent player, is ranked so low in England, he has so many competitors of his level. Rob would find it difficult to break into the top 500 in England, that is a fact, and the continued argument about standards is centred on this, He's no better than Honey, everyone really knows that.

[blocknhope]

Reb, the Australian open is probably the lowest national open on the planet

Try the Vanuatu Open!

[pingpongrob]

He's no better than Honey, everyone really knows that.

The above comment really shows that you really don't know. If you backed off like you did against Honey, you would be toast not only against me, but I would also put money on Blue Smartie, and possibly JT.. Not sure about Reb, his mobility might be an issue. As for Supa, couldn't really see him having an issue with anything you do.

[big ears]

This is your problem Rob, a complete lack of reality. I only backed off against Honey when I was 8-2 or 9-1 up and the game was over.

[pingpongrob]

This is your problem Rob, a complete lack of reality. I only backed off against Honey when I was 8-2 or 9-1 up and the game was over.

And this was so evident to see. I know reality, you just overestimate your level compared to mine. Your comment shows how low a standard Honey must really be. What do you really think that Greg Letts could have me 8-2, gee Brian can't, our no.1 veteran in Australia can't, but your so much better. I really think it's you that really needs the reality check,

[big ears]

And this was so evident to see. I know reality, you just overestimate your level compared to mine. Your comment shows how low a standard Honey must really be. What do you really think that Greg Letts could have me 8-2, gee Brian can't, our no.1 veteran in Australia can't, but your so much better. I really think it's you that really needs the reality check,

You can see Honey's standard on the clips, and from what I've seen of your game, you've got no right to say that. I notice you still refrain from posting a recent clip of your fantastically improved game.

[JT]

This is proof you don't grow out of ADHD, perhaps we better just get the tape measure out to solve this  lol

[king_of_spin]

Shibaji was playing horrible. Normally he would kill Brian 4-0.

[Honey]

And this was so evident to see. I know reality, you just overestimate your level compared to mine. Your comment shows how low a standard Honey must really be. What do you really think that Greg Letts could have me 8-2, gee Brian can't, our no.1 veteran in Australia can't, but your so much better. I really think it's you that really needs the reality check,

My standard is low Rob. Its band 5 out of 6, almost as low as it gets. In terms of local league though I'm pretty good and if I didn't know about the world outside local league I would think I was awesome and I would probably think Big Ears wasn't that good too.

Greg might not be able to get 8-2 in points against you, but he would beat you 20-0 in games and 100-0 in matches.

Rob tell me if I'm wrong but I personally don't think you've played enough top players to really have a good idea of what you're talking about, so its all guesswork. I've played loads, at all ages of the spectrum. BE has probably played 80% of the top 100 in our country at a total guess.

One other thought - If I'd have only uploaded the first 5 games (BE won 3-2), how different would the comments on the video have been? Some people can see the bigger picture...

[pingpongrob]

Shibaji was playing horrible. Normally he would kill Brian 4-0.

How much did Brian pay Shibaji

[RebornTTEvnglist]

This is proof you don't grow out of ADHD, perhaps we better just get the tape measure out to solve this  lol

But JT I think the tape measure will have trouble measuring infinitely around the circle.

[big ears]

Not exactly Slim Whitman yrself reb....

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Not exactly Slim Whitman yrself reb....

Hahahahaha! Biggy, I think you mis-interpreted me completely. I was referring to the infinite length of the circular argument going on here, not your girth! It took me a moment to work out what you were talking about here cos it had nothing to do with what I had posted (from my perspective). As for our girths I am sure we would challenge the tape measure together no doubt! No claims on superiority there, either way  .

Since you bring it up and this thread is way off course anyway, the only thing I would say is I rarely drink. Mine is caused by bloody medications that refuse to let it go. I eat fairly healthy, but I don't get as much exercise as I'd like, largely caused my the fact that when I play TT the knee swells and needs rest for a day or 2 before I can play again or walk very far. Makes it very hard to shake now. 10 years ago I was the weight I am now and I managed to lose 17kg over the course of a year or so and kept it off for about 5-6 years. It slowly crept back through illness.  Now we know you like your beer, but is this the only cause of yours?

[big ears]

No, I like food too, i'm on the 'sea food' diet, see food and eat it. I am reasonably fit though, I cycle regularly and play TT every day, as you've seen against Honey, I can play 20 odd games no problem, and I like to play slightly off the table, meaning I have to cover more area on the wings. good job I've got a good B/hand though, or i'd be buggered.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

No, I like food too, i'm on the 'sea food' diet, see food and eat it. I am reasonably fit though, I cycle regularly and play TT every day, as you've seen against Honey, I can play 20 odd games no problem, and I like to play slightly off the table, meaning I have to cover more area on the wings. good job I've got a good B/hand though, or i'd be buggered.

I can play 20 games of non-comp matches without a problem too. I back off the table a little more in non-serious practice matches for the fun of it. I start chopping on the BH more then.

[Der Echte]

Reb, I would love playing vs that style, I absolutely crave killing underspin more than Count Dracula loves biting jokers' necks.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Reb, I would love playing vs that style, I absolutely crave killing underspin more than Count Dracula loves biting jokers' necks.

I guess the question would be whether it was non-serious if we played or not