Aussies vs UK (and Sweden)!

[speedplay]

Seriously, how can I both get and lose points for smack? Sure I wasn't to gentle with my smack talk?

They way I see it, I should be ahead by a country mile towards the rest of the participants, cause not only am I telling them the truth, I'm doing it in style

[pingpongrob]

And here I was thinking it was all about a TT battle between U.K and Aussie, when in fact it's so much bigger! Enjoy;

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/2008/10/22/in-pictures-have-a-laugh-at-these-great-australian-sporting-failures-115875-20829089/

I laughed

I think Biggy have stated it all along, Australia have about the same quality as U.K, but they don't have as many in each level. So, being top dog in Aussie would mean fighting for the same spot in the U.K, but, being top 100 in Aussie will most likely make you struggle to reach top 500 in the U.K.

And we all know, being top dog in the U.K will make you nominated to the worst foreign player in the league here Al though he have redeemed himself since then

Now lets look at this Speedplay
The Population of UK is about 61 Million, Australia is sitting pretty at 21 Million, Now if we do some of JKC mathematics on the Gold medals won, UK had 11 and the Aussies had 6, when we extrapolate this for the population differance approx 2.82x, Australia ends up with about 17 Gold medals, thats a woping 54% increase above your so called Depth.
Please correct me if I'm wrong with my Maths JKC. Although I didnt have to use the periodic table to get these figure's.

And before you get on your high horse speedplay - we dont have much snow, yet I believe one of the worlds best Female Aerial Snow jumpers was an Aussie.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

And here I was thinking it was all about a TT battle between U.K and Aussie, when in fact it's so much bigger! Enjoy;

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/2008/10/22/in-pictures-have-a-laugh-at-these-great-australian-sporting-failures-115875-20829089/

I laughed

I think Biggy have stated it all along, Australia have about the same quality as U.K, but they don't have as many in each level. So, being top dog in Aussie would mean fighting for the same spot in the U.K, but, being top 100 in Aussie will most likely make you struggle to reach top 500 in the U.K.

And we all know, being top dog in the U.K will make you nominated to the worst foreign player in the league here Al though he have redeemed himself since then

All this article proves is how many waves the Aussies have sent through the pommy camp on everything for so long, that a pommy journo feels like its "newsworthy" when Aussies actually do fail at something. Yes THAT is worth laughing at!!

[JKC]

Are you running out of TT arguments Rob, because you seem to have wandered onto general sport again. Fact is you are not in the same class as me and BE and there is nothing you can say to change anyone's mind on this.
Ever wondered why you don't get more support from your practice partners? That must tell you something.

[big ears]

For sport in general, I would say that Aus is definately a more successful sporting nation than England, I'm one of the biggest critics of how sport is run and financed in the UK, starting off with massive under-developement at grass roots level, and constant over developement and investment in sports we have a chance in, mainly because we are world leaders anyway (rowing, cycling) all in the persuit of medals to appease the TV masses.
Back to TT, which is different, Australia really was a virtual backwater in TT terms until Harry Venner relocated down there in Melbourne in the late 1960's, his good work was followed up by the Late Mike Johns in the 1980's, and Victoria enjoys the benefit of both of those guys developement work today.

The problem with this argument about Robs standard is centered around vid clips and results. We all know that vid clips make it difficult to quantify a players standard, however the ability to quantify is based upon the ability to know what to look for.

Lets get back to where this stuff started, Rob vs BB, Rob tells us how he plays his best against better players, and BB is the best player we have on a clip of him playing.

Brian and Rob

Lets analyze Robs 'two wing loop' stlye. Out of 22 clear opportinities to open with a loop, either f/hand or b/hand in the first game, Rob makes a successful attack zero times, and infact makes all of his points out of BB's somewhat erratic attacks, a luxury BB can afford because Rob is no danger to him in any way. All Rob actually does is push and block, and neither to a decent standard. The only real merit I can give rob in that game is that he posesses a reasonably tight serve, but then does not follow it up.
Ok Rob, or anyone else, pick any of my clips and compare. Here is a start;

http://www.youtube.com/user/mackstar54#p/a/u/2/yAa7f2Riigg

This is a two winged loop style, notice how every opportunity to loop the ball is taken with a virtual 100% success rate of any passive ball.

[JT]

JKC, the thing is, despite is being a beautiful sight to see a bunch full grown overweight slow old guys argue about who is the best crappest player in the world :) you're all guessing. I don't think there would me more than 2 points a game between any of you. So it's kind of a worthless argument in the end

[JKC]

Don't take this the wrong way JT (and go off crying for another week), but if you think that then it shows just how much you know about this sport if you can't see the difference in class.

[JT]

Talking about old and slow, Rob actually has either a pretty much totally flat guts now if not totally flat. I don't know if he's mentioned this anywhere? about losing weight?. But he's actually in really good shape for a old man at the moment. Something you notice when seeing old videos like that one above

[JT]

Don't take this the wrong way JT (and go off crying for another week), but if you think that then it shows just how much you know about this sport then if you can't see the difference.

The only difference between you and me is that I'm always understated in my ability and your overstated in yours. I'm happy to accept I don't know anything about the game but you are not, you see?

[JKC]

I would agree that there are people out there that know much more than me about TT, but there are also people who know much less than me. You and Rob clearly fall into the second category.

[JT]

Well I believe the Australian old mans open is in Adelaide this year. Half the city are pommies already, one more having a holiday wont hurt :)

[JKC]

Talking about old and slow, Rob actually has either a pretty much totally flat guts now if not totally flat. I don't know if he's mentioned this anywhere? about losing weight?. But he's actually in really good shape for a old man at the moment. Something you notice when seeing old videos like that one above

Maybe if you spent less time staring at your opponents 'guts' and more time watching the ball, then you might improve your own game.

[JKC]

Well I believe the Australian old mans open is in Adelaide this year. Half the city are pommies already, one more having a holiday wont hurt :)

I don't suppose I am old enough yet.

Anyway, time for you to go and have a lay down, all of these comments must be upsetting you by now. See you in a week or so.

[big ears]

The only difference between you and me is that I'm always understated in my ability and your overstated in yours. I'm happy to accept I don't know anything about the game but you are not, you see?

 that's because JKC actually understates his ability which just happens to be obviously way ahead of yours, you have nothing to say about the clips apart from Rob being thinner because that is the limit of your TT knowlege. If you accept that you know little, why try to argue with people who have been playing and studying TT for most of their life.

[JT]

I don't suppose I am old enough yet.

Anyway, time for you to go and have a lay down, all of these comments must be upsetting you by now. See you in a week or so.

Mate I don't have to go anywhere at all until Wednesday so you're stuck with me for a while yet :)

[JKC]

Probably can't leave the house until your Wednesday appointment as the outside world can be such a frightening place without the pills.

[pingpongrob]

that's because JKC actually understates his ability which just happens to be obviously way ahead of yours, you have nothing to say about the clips apart from Rob being thinner because that is the limit of your TT knowlege. If you accept that you know little, why try to argue with people who have been playing and studying TT for most of their life.

There's no possible chance that Rob could have actually improved since the clip, maybe his reconstructed knee is actually up to pushing him into position - couldnt be so, nah not Rob. And the fact that he has gained points and gone from  20 to 16, must be becuase he paid someone.  All the talk about pushing on the Forhand might have actually struck a cord, a noce one at that.
How about Big Ears since you know so many players in Vic, ones of a higher standard, you organise a match and see if I can push them off on the forhand side.

[JKC]

You have improved so much that 11 people (probably kids) have managed to overtake you on the ranking list. Face it Rob, you're a small fish in a small pond and you're swimming 'round in circles. Before you start trying to take on the sharks, you need to look for something nearer to your own size.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Are you running out of TT arguments Rob, because you seem to have wandered onto general sport again. Fact is you are not in the same class as me and BE and there is nothing you can say to change anyone's mind on this.
Ever wondered why you don't get more support from your practice partners? That must tell you something.

He doesn't have to say anything cos I think he is in the same class...although I'd say he HAS more class LOL. The only thing you guys seem to know about class is JKC stands in front of one and attempts to teach them to count to ten (or 20 if everyone removes their shoes, but then after weeks of not bathing there is an OH&S warning for Poms not to do this ). Truth be known JKC thinks he has won his match when his score reaches 10...and all the other English do (except for those who had digital accidents growing up and stop at 9) and so they wouldn't actually know how to win a game to 11 

[pingpongrob]

You have improved so much that 11 people (probably kids) have managed to overtake you on the ranking list. Face it Rob, you're a small fish in a small pond and you're swimming 'round in circles. Before you start trying to take on the sharks, you need to look for something nearer to your own size.

Wake up JKC, I've jumped 4 places in the Vets, from 20 to 16. Why are you being such an Arse about this matter, Look at figures they improved, look at the clip I posted, look at the players I beat, they were all above me in points, Look at 1 of the 2 matches I lost, he was ranked around me, yet I lost 8 points, then look at the ones ranked well above me, and I gained very little points. You would think that as a maths teacher you could read, but from your posts I doubt it.

[speedplay]

Lots of action, which is great

I'll begin with Rob's statement about depth with the medal count at the common wealth game. The thing is, U.K wonmore medals. No matter how you twist it, the result is more medals for U.K. Yes, Australia have a smaller population, but the competition isn't about population. As I've said before, I you want to count population as a part of it, then you have to accept the fact that Sweden have totally dominated the world stage at TT, as a noobish country like China would have to win ~100 medals for each medal won by Sweden. Does this prove that Sweden have more depth? I don't think so, it shows that we have had players at the same high level as China, but when it comes to depth, we simply can't compete with them. Look at our golden generation, with Waldner and the likes, we had 5-8 players of a very high international standard, who at the time happened to be the best in the world, beating even the mighty Chinese. How ever, I do believe that each player in the Chinese team had to compete for his spot in the team against 100 others of similar level. In Sweden, we didn't (and definitely don't) have this depth, that's why Waldner and Persson have been playing a part in our national team for such a long time, while the Chinese players have been replaced. Depth isn't something that should be put in perspective to the population, but a bigger population increases the chances of having good depth.

As for Aussie gol in a winter sport, wow, what an achievement, I wonder if Sweden up in the cold north ever have won any summer events... Oh, that's right, Frölander did win some gold medals in swimming, I even think he won an Olympic gold. Seeing our population at ~9 millions versus Aussie ~21, we got to be way better then you guys.
 
About the Rob vs BB video, Biggy raises the point I've been pointing at all the time, Rob claims to be a two winged looper, but he never loops! This might have improved but dropping in ranking suggests that the improvement is small. Sure, you might have earned more points Rob, but still other people have managed to pass you on the ranking, which is so hard to advance on...
 
As for JKC, I'm willingly admiting that a first glance of his game might not give the impression of a quality player. Why? Because he have a weird/unconventional style, which is exactly why Rob claims his level is so low, he struggles against all these weird styles. I might be wrong on this, but I don't think JKC have ever been top 100 in the U.K. Could this be because of his weird style? This shows something about the level in the U.K vs the level in Aussie, in U.K, weird styles don't get in to top 100, but in Aussie, they are preventing people from advancing. And lets face it, TT have been around for so long, so the conventional game have been found to be the most successfull, so the higher ranking these weird styles have, the lower the level is. This isn't to insult Rob or JKC, Imy self loss a lot to weird styles, but I'm not a high level player at all. Now, JKC have a weird style, but if you take the time to look at him play, you will find that he is rarely caught out of position, he is very consistent with getting the ball back, and often in a way that forces his opponent to move around a lot to keep up the pressure. He is obviously very good at what he does, even though I think the style is holding him back some what.
 
Again, with Rob's pushes, the most reveiling thing according to me isn't that he pushes as much as he do, it's the fact that he pushes with his bh from the fh corner. Pushing might very well be implemented as a part of some ones tactic against certain opponents, but not covering the entire table with your bh... Unless you are a LP blocker

[JKC]

Wake up JKC, I've jumped 4 places in the Vets, from 20 to 16. Why are you being such an Arse about this matter, Look at figures they improved, look at the clip I posted, look at the players I beat, they were all above me in points, Look at 1 of the 2 matches I lost, he was ranked around me, yet I lost 8 points, then look at the ones ranked well above me, and I gained very little points. You would think that as a maths teacher you could read, but from your posts I doubt it.

To be honest, I haven't even looked at the ranking list or your results. Why bother when I can make up my own conclusions and bluff it out.

So, 4 of the over 85's in the list dropped out then allowing you to advance then Rob. Well done.

[JKC]

You are right Speedplay, I have never been in the top 100. It would have been nice to get there, but having not really practiced properly in the last 20 years then I think making it to 140 was quite a result. Maybe I will have another go as my practice partner improves in the next couple of years.

[blue_smartie68]

To be honest, I haven't even looked at the ranking list or your results. Why bother when I can make up my own conclusions and bluff it out.

JKC, that comment could come back to haunt you!
Looks like the cat's been let out of the bag with regards to the English Forum Debating Team's strategies 

[JKC]

Why? I'm doing well enough against you bunch of amateurs. Looking up the ranking of a mediocre player in a mediocre league doesn't really interest me.

Where are you Echte? Surely I have scored heavily today. I'm trying really hard.

[JT]

You guys you are not being very convincing, it's going to be an uphill battle arguing against Australian's on an Australian forum, I'm pure English blooded right back to the middle ages and I still don't believe the English are any good at anything :). There were a lot of Swedish travelers in Queensland running around with bats in their backpacks back in the days when Sweden were the champions of table tennis and they could play pretty well, much better than the local players in Queensland anyway. But people that carry a blade in their backpack while traveling to the other side of the planet and actively go looking for a club to play in aren't expected to be crappy players. Then again QLD has lower standard of table tennis compared to any other state, they have better things to do like go to the beach and look at girls.

I've no doubt even these days that the average club player in Sweden is still much stronger than the average Victorian player even with the government pumping support into the Juniors here the last few years, it's still going to take some time for them to all mature but the standard here is increasing fairly quickly in recent years. 20th in the state 5 years ago is more like 35th now. Anyone that's held their level during that time has improved quite a bit. 10 years ago you'd be doing well to ever meet a table tennis coach. Now there's a qualified coach in just about every club and almost every club has Juniors trying to get into the state teams, some of them are over in China training for part of the year.

Previously it was all aging players that were at the pointed end of the clubs. I don't know if England is on the up or down with table tennis but I know the standard overall wont be as high as Sweden or something like that. Now I have to go take some Xanax so I can go outside :D

[big ears]

the hugest yawn I have done in about 5 years........one thing you have to know is that no-on reads really  reads
long posts, they skip them , take what they need, then post a reply                             

[supachop]

JT. Did you play Rob at Geelong Vets ?

[RebornTTEvnglist]

the hugest yawn I have done in about 5 years........one thing you have to know is that no-on reads really  reads
long posts, they skip them , take what they need, then post a reply                           

Thats a bit disrespectful to Speedplay Biggy, he obviously put a lot of thought into that long post! 

[pingpongrob]

Why? I'm doing well enough against you bunch of amateurs. Looking up the ranking of a mediocre player in a mediocre league doesn't really interest me.

Where are you Echte? Surely I have scored heavily today. I'm trying really hard.

Dont know about you, but I actually make a living from table tennis.
Your statements are SFOS.