major hard bat final

[big ears]

this is the final of a hard bat competition played over the w/kend, anyone fancy their chances against these guys?

WUTTO World Championships table tennis with standard bats final 2010

[pingpongrob]

Funny you should post the clip, Zoltan and I made up 2 hard bats, and start every training session with a Hard bat match. Its fun, the rallies can be long.

Whats your feeling about the Smooth Rubber revolution, and the 40mm ball. Zoltans Coach back in Hungary was one of the former World Champions from the Hard bat era.  He brought over a DVD titled Legends of Table Tennis 1931-1995 - have you seen it.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

More than half my game is like this anyway...with Ox pips 

OK, so the long pips aren't quite hardbat qualified. Looks like a fun variation on the game to play around with.

Had my first hit today in 2 weeks. Made up for it playing over the course of about 7 hours with a dinner break. 

[sunflex]

Nice to see the video on youtube. The guy with the red shirt owned Waldner in the semi final.semi final 2 Waldner  I also played at this tournament in the World Class and in the A class. I played against two english guys Fred Dove in the A class and Tony West in the World Class. I lost to Fred 2-1 and I beat Tony 2-1. Unfortunately I ended up at the 2nd and 3rd place in my round robin groups(4 players) and only the number one went through. Fred became 1rst in our group in the A class, but then he lost in 1/8 finals. In our WC group  Tony became 2nd and I became 3rd, so we were both out.
Fred lost to the guy in Yellow Shirt in 1/8 final of the World Class. I spoke to Fred and he said he beat top 50 english player with hardbat vs inverted(top 50 player). Both Tony and Fred were very friendly. Do you know these guys Wiggy?

[big ears]

Yes I know them very well, especially Fred, who away from the hardbat game, plays a pushblock style. I usually beat him very easily, infact he gives up. I don't understand your comment about the top 50, can you explain it again?

[sunflex]

Yes I know them very well, especially Fred, who away from the hardbat game, plays a pushblock style. I usually beat him very easily, infact he gives up. I don't understand your comment about the top 50, can you explain it again?

Fred told me that he beat an english top 50 player when Fred was using a hardbat and the top 50 guy his normal racket.

[big ears]

Well I doubt that, I really do, It probably was in practice, because the scenario would not happen in real TT. There are a few younger players who would struggle, at face value, I beat Fred so easily you would not believe it, yet I'm only rankled 79, By 'not believe it' I mean he would not get anywhere  near making me sweat. On the current ETTA ranking list, Fred is 178 in the vets, his mens ranking would be considerably lower.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Sunflex are you saying you play better hardbat than inverted compared to others? I'm pretty sure you don't reach world class with inverted do you? Given you are young maybe you have come a long way lately though. What are your TT aspirations these days? Good to hear you are playing at this level even in hardbat!

[sunflex]

Well I doubt that, I really do, It probably was in practice, because the scenario would not happen in real TT. There are a few younger players who would struggle, at face value, I beat Fred so easily you would not believe it, yet I'm only rankled 79, By 'not believe it' I mean he would not get anywhere  near making me sweat. On the current ETTA ranking list, Fred is 178 in the vets, his mens ranking would be considerably lower.

ok I couldn't believe my ears when he told it to me.

[sunflex]

Sunflex are you saying you play better hardbat than inverted compared to others? I'm pretty sure you don't reach world class with inverted do you? Given you are young maybe you have come a long way lately though. What are your TT aspirations these days? Good to hear you are playing at this level even in hardbat!

No I don't say that XD. I was just surprised a win like that could be possible as BE always tells that english top 50 players are strong players( and I believe him). It must have been a joke or it was in a practice match like BE said. Compared to the guys in the video above I can't play hardbat at all:p. I have played 2 small interclub tournaments with hardbat at the beginning of this year and 2 years ago and I quite liked playing hardbat.  It was the first time I played this tournament and it was a great experience. I'll be there next year, but I'll be better prepaired.

[big ears]

It may be possible, Fred beat a top 50 vet with a hard bat, but I can't believe he would get anywhere near a top 50 senior player, I'll ask him next time he sends me one of his endless emails inviting me toplay in one of his hard bat tournaments (which I intend to do at some point)

[Silver]

You know how many of the recent rule changes were partially to increase the length of rallies? Did anyone feel that these rallies are just as short as regular tt?

[RebornTTEvnglist]

You know how many of the recent rule changes were partially to increase the length of rallies? Did anyone feel that these rallies are just as short as regular tt?

The thought had occurred to me.

[pingpongrob]

True hard bat rallies between 2 equal oppenants actually last a long time. On new years eve I played My Friend Andrew, and we used 2 blades with no rubbers. It was hard to win a rally, consistency played a huge part, wth rallies going on for 10 - 20 strokes.  I have a feeling that there was more participation when we played with hard bats, the spin wasnt as drastic, and as such made it easier for noobs to play. The introduction of sponge rubber, then long pips slowly weined players away. I could be wrong - it might just be that life is more busy, and the road are more conjested, but the numbers playing competitevely keep dropping, and the spectators are nearly non existant.  the non playing spectator juist cant seem to understand the demanding aspects of the sport, let alone the dynamics of spin.

[speedplay]

True hard bat rallies between 2 equal oppenants actually last a long time. On new years eve I played My Friend Andrew, and we used 2 blades with no rubbers. It was hard to win a rally, consistency played a huge part, wth rallies going on for 10 - 20 strokes.  I have a feeling that there was more participation when we played with hard bats, the spin wasnt as drastic, and as such made it easier for noobs to play. The introduction of sponge rubber, then long pips slowly weined players away. I could be wrong - it might just be that life is more busy, and the road are more conjested, but the numbers playing competitevely keep dropping, and the spectators are nearly non existant.  the non playing spectator juist cant seem to understand the demanding aspects of the sport, let alone the dynamics of spin.

Having another go at your level, this time with hard bat

I do believe that at our lower level, the rallies are longer with hard bat, but perhaps not so much becuase it's harder to hit a winner, but more so because it is so much easier to control, so we make less unforced errors with hard bat.
 
At the top level, I do agree that hard bat rallies tends to last longer then the average rally in regular TT, but from what I've seen (which certainly isn't much when it comes to hard bat TT) even here the rally seems to be shorter then they used to be. Players seem to be more athletic and go for the kill earlier then they used to do. So the "old" skill with consistency have been replaced by the "new" skill with athleticism, kind of like in Golf, where they all (almost) are well trined guys/girls these days.[/quote]

[pingpongrob]

Having another go at your level, this time with hard bat

I guess Waldner was as well

WUTTO World Championships table tennis with standard bats semi final 2

[speedplay]

I really don't understand what the clip of Waldner have to do with my comment, so please elaborate.

For the record, Waldner is hardly the typical hard bat player.

[big ears]

I think if Waldner was bothered to beat just about everyone who plays hard bat he would very quickly with a little practice.

[pingpongrob]

For the record, Waldner is hardly the typical hard bat player.

And Neither an I

[pingpongrob]

I think if Waldner was bothered to beat just about everyone who plays hard bat he would very quickly with a little practice.

He bothered to get into the semi final, so why wouldnt he have bother to get into the Final.  Maybe it has to do with the 10,000 hours.

[JKC]

I think what BE means is that he doesn't suppose that Waldner worked on his hardbat game a whole lot before the tournament. If he chose to then he would be much better. He probably reads the game better than anyone else in the tournament, but when you are having to manually adjust every shot to allow for a bat you are not used to then things are very difficult however good you are. However if he wanted to it wouldn't take long for him to change this. The key words are 'IF HE WANTED TO' though and I doubt he is bothered.

[pingpongrob]

I think what BE means is that he doesn't suppose that Waldner worked on his hardbat game a whole lot before the tournament. If he chose to then he would be much better. He probably reads the game better than anyone else in the tournament, but when you are having to manually adjust every shot to allow for a bat you are not used to then things are very difficult however good you are. However if he wanted to it wouldn't take long for him to change this. The key words are 'IF HE WANTED TO' though and I doubt he is bothered.

Putting that into those words - I totally agree. If you watched the whole clip, you can see him hit a winner around the net.

[speedplay]

And Neither an I

Don't think I ever claimed you where? Still, you fail to make sense here. I explained why i thought players at your level would have longer rallies with hard bat, and you went on about Waldner? Now, he is hardly playing at your level, even if I wouldn't be surprised if you thought you could beat him as you love to play against his style.

Look at the best hard bat players in the world today, then look at the best hard bat players 30 years ago and you will see that they have shorter rallies today, as they play more offensive today.

[pingpongrob]

Don't think I ever claimed you where? Still, you fail to make sense here. I explained why i thought players at your level would have longer rallies with hard bat, and you went on about Waldner? Now, he is hardly playing at your level, even if I wouldn't be surprised if you thought you could beat him as you love to play against his style.

Look at the best hard bat players in the world today, then look at the best hard bat players 30 years ago and you will see that they have shorter rallies today, as they play more offensive today.

Its obvious that the New Year has not made you any happier.  This thread is not about Me Versus Big Ears, So I'm the one that cant understand why you keep talking about "it suits my style", where have I mentionioned that Hard Bat suits my style.  If you have a beef with me, then lets take it to the boxing ring and sort ity out once and for all.  I know how you feel about my style and level, but you are wrong - dead wrong, and this aint the thread to bring it up again.

[speedplay]

We obviously don't speak the same language. I said that I had a go at your level, since I once again lumped you in with me and the level I play at and I explained why I thought we would have longer rallies with hard bat, which I think is what this tread is about, right??? Then you, for some reason mentioned Waldner as a reply to my post. Please do enlighten me how Waldner is relevant when I speak about why crappy players such as you and I would get longer rallies with hard bat. Do you consider him to play at our level? I haven't mentioned Big Ears at all, cause as far as I know, he don't play hard bat.

[pingpongrob]

Speedplay, I dont play hard bat as a general rule, and No Waldner is not at your Level, and neither is he at Mine. Yet he seem to be playing players that are at my Level, although probabbly with a little more experience in hard bat play.  The reason why I menioned Waldner was not in relation to your posty but more so in to the thread in General.

I have watched a DVD on early Table Tennis, from when Hungary were world champions to the current Chinese champions. and during the peak of hard bat play, the rallies were swift and fast, no differance to today's rallies.  If you like I can send you this DVD and you can comment once viewed.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I don't know why these discussions have to always come back to a fixation on level like its the only thing that is worth discussing about TT. This thread is about hardbat, specifically about some vids on hardbat that featured Waldner and some other players. I don't see why there needs to be goes had at Rob's level here on it just because he mentions he had some hardbat games. It gets old.

[speedplay]

I don't know why these discussions have to always come back to a fixation on level like its the only thing that is worth discussing about TT. This thread is about hardbat, specifically about some vids on hardbat that featured Waldner and some other players. I don't see why there needs to be goes had at Rob's level here on it just because he mentions he had some hardbat games. It gets old.

Wow, you managed to completely miss the point! Start from the top and read the entire tread again, then you will see that I'm commenting to Rob about why I think he (and players at his level) have longer rallies with hard bat. It's not so much because it's harder to hit a winner, it's more about the increased control which reduces the amount of unforced errors.

I mean, yes, I said I was going to have a go at Rob's level, but added a smiley to make it obvious that it was a joke, but with an explenation as to why rallies last longer with hard bats.
 
The only thing that is getting old is how you try to stick up for Rob every time his posts are questioned. Rob's a big boy and he can stick up for him self.
 
Rob, thanks for the offer, but I must admit, I'm not that interested in the hard bat games, even though it can be fun to watch a youtube clip of it every now and then.

[Barrow TTC]

Well I doubt that, I really do, It probably was in practice, because the scenario would not happen in real TT. There are a few younger players who would struggle, at face value, I beat Fred so easily you would not believe it, yet I'm only rankled 79, By 'not believe it' I mean he would not get anywhere  near making me sweat. On the current ETTA ranking list, Fred is 178 in the vets, his mens ranking would be considerably lower.

I know you aren't his biggest fan Wiggy, but I know for a fact Denis Neale has beaten top 50 England players with a Hardbat in competitive play, so it is possible.

[big ears]

I know you aren't his biggest fan Wiggy, but I know for a fact Denis Neale has beaten top 50 England players with a Hardbat in competitive play, so it is possible.

 Denis Neal (who I have massive respect for on the table) is just a million miles away from Fred Dove in standard, for Denis its easily possible, for Fred its not, unless the top 50 player was over ranked.