how good are these players.

[speedplay]

As for the technological backwater, well, I've explained it before, the main problem is to find some one who is willing to play infront of a camera and have it posted on Youtube.

Regarding the slow computer, my main computer crashed some months ago and since I've been unemployed for some time now, we simply don't have the finances to buy a new computer, which is why I'm stuck with this old laptop with virtually no free memory in it at all.

Now, regarding styles, the way I see it, they only become a factor when you play against some one of the same level. A player who is a level or two better then me should still beat me even if he hate anti. Cause, if he is a level better then me, he should be able to find ways to get around it.

Rob, no need to get cranky, cause you have to agree, it is continuos results that determines your level and not a single result against a single player.

[pingpongrob]

The fact that BE almost never loses to players lower than his general ranking standard says a lot IMHO.

You said the word, "Almost"

[pingpongrob]

Rob, no need to get cranky, cause you have to agree, it is continuos results that determines your level and not a single result against a single player.

Me Cranky, I dont think so. I have so many other problems in my life that the Rob V BE is so insignificant.  There are many players above me that I must beat before I can Guarentee a win against BE.  As for the Master Speedplay, well we might just have to wait for a trip uptop.

[blocker]

You said the word, "Almost"

From memory I think BE said he 'almost' never loses to players below a certain rating strength (I forget the exact cut-off point). This consistency of performances would be a good indicator of his overall level I would've thought. Like everyone, I am sure he has an occasional bad loss but, for eg, if he beats players ranked over 150 99 times out of 100 then this tells us something of his standard. Similarly, if someone beat a player ranked 100 and yet almost always lost to players in the 500 range, then I would suggest this player was well below the 500 range despite his one good win. Didn't some geezer once say: "One swallow does not make a summer"?     

[pingpongrob]

Didn't some geezer once say: "One swallow does not make a summer"?     

Were talking about a Standard here, remember in table tennis because of styles some players tend to be of a certain level, and this especially goes for Veterans, where massive speed and super fast reflexes are generally taken out of the equation.  Look at BE videos, he always goes away from the table, obviously to gain some time advantage, for his footwork, and stroke preparation, Whereas, I'd try and force table table play, unless I have no option but to step back and Fish or loop.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

. Didn't some geezer once say: "One swallow does not make a summer"?     

By the same token you cannot take credit away from the person who has a win against another person of higher rating. There may be a myriad of reasons why the lower ranked player is lower ranked, and to beat someone way above them may well show their true potential.

[blocker]

By the same token you cannot take credit away from the person who has a win against another person of higher rating. There may be a myriad of reasons why the lower ranked player is lower ranked, and to beat someone way above them may well show their true potential.

The usual reason why someone is ranked where they are is that this is what their results determine. If someone is on the improve (like Rob possibly is) then yes a win against a higher rated could indeed show his true potential.

We should always remember though: there is a big difference between beating a good player and merely pushing a good player.   

[blue_smartie68]

We should always remember though: there is a big difference between beating a good player and merely pushing a good player.

Very true Blocker... you can never tell how much some players have in reserve.
I know a quite a few top players who only do as much as they have to.. and always seem to have plenty of extra gears, if needed. In fact, thinking about it... I usually like to let lower ranked players get into the game a bit to have some enjoyable rallies, rather than try to whitewash them. I would imagine some think they have pushed me in this case.

The other thing, of course... we could all push the likes of Henzell.... especially if they get in the road when we are trying to get to the bar! Man's not a camel, you know! 

[blocker]

The other thing, of course... we could all push the likes of Henzell.... especially if they get in the road when we are trying to get to the bar! Man's not a camel, you know! 

lol Chris. maybe this is what Rob means when he says he could push BE??

[RebornTTEvnglist]

lol Chris. maybe this is what Rob means when he says he could push BE??

Somehow I don't think anyone pushes past BE to get to the bar LOL.

Besides us guys with bad knees don't push people if we can help it....although Rob's knee is better than mine lol.

[pingpongrob]

lol Chris. maybe this is what Rob means when he says he could push BE??

Don't think so. What do you think Chris.
You are right though about not playing to you full potential, I think we are all guilty of this. Generally you know when your oppenant is messing with you.

[blocker]

You are right though about not playing to you full potential, I think we are all guilty of this. Generally you know when your oppenant is messing with you.

Often though when a strong player plays a less strong player they aren't exactly 'messing' with them. Rather, they just aren't playing at 100% for the whole match because they know they have their opponent covered. If the score happens to get close the better player then goes up a gear and wins. I believe this happens VERY frequently and often the weaker player is not aware of it. We have all met players who say "I almost beat such-and-such strong players" but miraculously they never do actually beat players of this higher standard. This is why actual wins are a far more reliable guide than 'close matches'.

As Chris said: "I usually like to let lower ranked players get into the game a bit to have some enjoyable rallies, rather than try to whitewash them."
 

[speedplay]

Wow, I really need to stay awake at nights, since this is when all the action here kicks in

Reb, you are right (Yes, read it again, I said you where right ) that a lower rated player who beats some one with a much better ranking should get the praise he deserves and it could be seen as a sign of his potential. How ever, we all know that our potential and our lvel aren't  the same thing. If we do happen to play to the best of our potential, I think we all could beat players way higher in the ranking then our self, but our level is determind by the perfomance we put in every week.

About pushing some one, I quote Waldner on this, he said, unless you have a match point, you are never close to win. I tend to agree with that, but at the same time, Rob 9-11 loss to Brian is a bit impressive, cause when it is this close, the better player haven't just fooled around, which they often do against lesser players. I know when I played Viktor Fredriksson and lost 1-3, it felt like a close match and I really enjoyed it and felt that I was playing really good. Then I watched his other matches, against more evenly matched opponents and realised just how nice he had been to me. Unfortunately, a lot of lower level players never realise this but actually think they manage to push the better player, when in fact, they were never even close. This is often why some times a lesser player can grab a set from a skilled opponent, while his team mate (who is better) don't because he is good enough to force the better player to make a real effort. When I face lesser players (not that it happens that often, cause I'm one of the lesser players my self) I don't care to much if I drop a set, cause I know I'm still going to win, but against stronger opponents, I always make my best to shut them down 3-0.

[big ears]

From memory I think BE said he 'almost' never loses to players below a certain rating strength (I forget the exact cut-off point). This consistency of performances would be a good indicator of his overall level I would've thought. Like everyone, I am sure he has an occasional bad loss but, for eg, if he beats players ranked over 150 99 times out of 100 then this tells us something of his standard. Similarly, if someone beat a player ranked 100 and yet almost always lost to players in the 500 range, then I would suggest this player was well below the 500 range despite his one good win. Didn't some geezer once say: "One swallow does not make a summer"?     

 This is very true of my game, the main reason I keep my ranking is through lack of losing to inferior players rather than having really good wins and bad losses, and its because of the conservative/ consistent way I the game. I might not be spectacular, but players have to BEAT me to win, I give little away.
Over the last two w/ends I've played 14 matches in vets competitions, won 10 lost 4. Of the wins, 9 were ranked below me and 1 above. All 4 losses were to players ranked above me, its all on the ETTA website if anyone needs to look.
http://www.etta.co.uk/BritishLeague/VBL/2010-11/VBL310dall.htm

[Barrow TTC]

The clip of Katerina and trisran is IMO unfairly edited against Katerina, it was filmed by Trist and edited for his angle on the match, not Katerina's, so shows an unbalanced view of Katerina's consistency, although I have to say, she is just a girl and only ranked so high because quite a few more mature and advanced players at the English top of the ladies game, have packed in from competition recently.

My editing of videos (at least now) tends to go as far as starting the clip when a player serves and stopping it around 1 second to 1.5 seconds after the point is finished unless I notice something interesting (editing is done when I sit down in front of the news so sound is muted).  I try and be fair, mood does dictate how strict I maybe to this rule and subconsciousness probably kicks in at times.

In my opinion, I played terribly here and was a little nervous.  The purpose at this point was to shoot videos and try and start building an audience on the YouTube channel for this season (it was always our ambition to get promoted, but the players that wanted to play for us was a bit of a shock).

I would say Tristrans 200+ ranking shows the depth of the standard in England rather than the quality, what I mean is, we have so many players, they are not nececarily better than amature players in Aus, its just that there are more of them, so when it comes to ranking them, things don't fall into place quite so easily, you can have players ranked 500 that are well capable of taking out a player ranked 250.

I only play in the British League and it always takes a couple of games to tighten my serves and lift my level (local league in the Manchester area is weak and you can get away with a lot).

I would say my 200 ranking is probably about right, but that is due to my inconsistency.  On my day I will beat top 100 players.  However, on the same day I might suffer a terrible defeat (however, if I played the same players in the local league I'd beat them - playing in a team of quality players tends to make me try too hard and put too much pressure on myself).

I totally agree with Big Ears regarding the depth in England.  The top 5 or so are in a league of their own.  Then down to the top 20 you have another band.  Beyond that there is probably another band up to the top 50 and then things are open to all kinds of upsets.  Plus, people will every now and again appear unranked from no where, destroy you and disappear again.

BTW, I think I've played Tristran 3 times, and he is always competitive, has definately improved recently, but I am sure he would agree, he would be extremely happy to beat me.

I can't remember playing big ears, but my memory is terrible and we must have played at some point.  I know if we have played, then I definitely lost because if I'd won, I would have remebered it! - big ears is very much respected in the British League and I know our top players when we played in his division (Bradley Evans and Jonathan Crawford) always respected him!

has definately improved recently

Cheers for that.  After not playing for a few years and coming back, despite my age, I still feel that every year I am improving.

[Barrow TTC]

One interesting thing to note when discussing the depth of players in Britain.  In the British League Premier Division an unranked German player (he had played in division 3 of a region in Germany), Sebastian Laux, stepped into our first team (along with Paul Drinkhall, Gavin Rumgay and Darius Knight).  He travelled by train from Germany the night before, his first match was against a team that had won the league for the last two seasons (going undefeated for the same length of time) and he was in a team of professionals and strangers - just imagine the pressure!

Despite all this, he lost to the Scottish Number 2 Craig Howieson 13-11 in the 5th set and should have beaten Terry Young (Commonwealth Gold Medalist and England No. 14) who he lost to in the 5th set 11-9.  If it wasn't for all the stresses and pressure which caused Sebastian to play a little negative in my opinion, I believe this unknown unranked Germany player would have beaten two of the best players in Britain!

[speedplay]

Which shows what kind of depth there is in Germany! They are probably by far the strongest nation in Europe and I don't think any other country could match them, neither by depth or at the top. Boll is dominating Europe like no one else have done before him, and amongst the pack that tries to keep up with him, you find Dima, Steiger, Baum and probably a couple of other young Germans who are soon ready to take the step to the very highest level in Europe.

[big ears]

the reason I can remember playing Tristran is coz he's the only guy I ever play who wears a hat.

[blocker]

I can't remember playing big ears, but my memory is terrible and we must have played at some point.  I know if we have played, then I definitely lost because if I'd won, I would have remebered it! - big ears is very much respected in the British League and I know our top players when we played in his division (Bradley Evans and Jonathan Crawford) always respected him!

Tristan, I am sure in your neck of the woods that BE is well respected but around here I am afraid he is considered a bit of a hack. If you check the "Video Clips" section you will see a number of players who would easily account for him. 

[pingpongrob]

Tristan, I am sure in your neck of the woods that BE is well respected but around here I am afraid he is considered a bit of a hack. If you check the "Video Clips" section you will see a number of players who would easily account for him. 

So many unemployed Jokers in this world and you are trying to get a Job as one
Nobody said we would account for him easily, all that was said, that he is not as good as he makes out to be. He is of the MSAC A grade standard, which has already been proven many times.  BTW, the MSAC A grade standard is pretty good, and a lot of hard training is required to play at that level, so to some players it is a good standard, to players like Gerada & Henzel, it is ordinary......

[blue_smartie68]

Tristan, I am sure in your neck of the woods that BE is well respected but around here I am afraid he is considered a bit of a hack. If you check the "Video Clips" section you will see a number of players who would easily account for him. 

........ and maybe BE only plays British League 'coz he can't get a game at Dandy... 

And Rob, I'm a self employed joker! lol 

[speedplay]

How good was Henzell when he left to play in Sweden? I assume he was already considered a talent to make such a huge decision at the age of... Was it 14, when he came here?

[big ears]

Nobody said we would account for him easily, all that was said, that he is not as good as he makes out to be.

 One thing I never do, is make out I'm better than I am, and I'd like you to post a quote I've made, I know exactly where I am in the world of TT, maybe the argument lies between the varying standards across the globe, but please don't say I think I'm better than I am, I can tell you all my faults. It may come across that way, but that is confidence in my own ability, which can easily be confused with granduer, its not, believe me.

[pingpongrob]

One thing I never do, is make out I'm better than I am, and I'd like you to post a quote I've made, I know exactly where I am in the world of TT, maybe the argument lies between the varying standards across the globe, but please don't say I think I'm better than I am, I can tell you all my faults. It may come across that way, but that is confidence in my own ability, which can easily be confused with granduer, its not, believe me.

In the clips, all the big winners are from easy balls, mid table, no spin, egg and milk for someone who reads pips. I have not posted, because I just get tired of these 'how good are you' clips, its extremely difficult to acertain on clips how good a player is, I pesonlally think I would beat easily everyone who has played on Rob's clips, but I can't prove it, so what is the point.? We can just speculate for ever. I know my standard in England, it gets the respect that I'm happy with, respect is everything as far as TT is concerned, If you get it, you are happy.
 Supachop looks good quality to me, but I might blow him away...... how do we know? IMO I would, looking at his game play, but that is just my opinion based upon clips over the internet, I also looked at Greg Letts over the internet, and honestly underrrated him.

Reading between the lines my friend says exactly that.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

........ and maybe BE only plays British League 'coz he can't get a game at Dandy... 

Oh I think BE would get a game at Dandy for perhaps a season, but the Aus Government might deny him any longer than a tourist visa to let him go a 2nd season LOL 

I have to say this thread has made this forum worth the look each day, keep up the BS, its fun!!

[big ears]

Reading between the lines my friend says exactly that.

 Why is that thinking I'm better than I am? were not exactly talking about William Henzell are we? everything I said in that post could be true, and the point of the post was to state how we can't prove anything untill we play. You read it wrong I'm afraid, and the real problem is, you are NOT reading between the lines of what I am saying, must be a cultural/language problem.
 The point of that post was to use myself as an example as to how we all can look at internet clips of players and fancy our chances, or maybe you forgot to read the last part about Gregg Letts? Why would I write that if I was trying to overstate my standard?

[pingpongrob]

Quote BE
I would beat easily everyone who has played on Rob's clips, but I can't prove it,
End Quote

We have shown you the standard of some of the Vets down here, yet you fail to acknowledge it. Brian was one of them, Supachop is for sure the same standard, and I'm not far off. So my friend you might have a win, you might have a loss, but either way you won't beat any of us EASILY.

[blocker]

We have shown you the standard of some of the Vets down here, yet you fail to acknowledge it. Brian was one of them, Supachop is for sure the same standard, and I'm not far off.

Latest Victorian Rankings:

Brian - 9
Supachop - 18
Rob - 78

Given that the rankings are based on results and not conjecture, how far behind in the rankings do you actually have to be before you are considered to be "far off"?

[big ears]

Quote BE
I would beat easily everyone who has played on Rob's clips, but I can't prove it,
End Quote

 It actually was written as 'I personally think'  not 'I would'  one is a statement of self confidence, the other is a statement of fact, and the context of the statment was to show how we all can personally feel confident about beating somebody, but can't prove it until we play them. i then followed this up by stating how I underrated Gregg from the video clips I'd seen of him, and then found out when I played him. If anyone is overstating their standard around here its quite obvious who that is.

[speedplay]

Latest Victorian Rankings:

Brian - 9
Supachop - 18
Rob - 78

Given that the rankings are based on results and not conjecture, how far behind in the rankings do you actually have to be before you are considered to be "far off"?

LOL!

I don't know about the depth of talent in Aussie, but if player number 78 is close to player ranked at number 9, then Aussie have greater deepth then Sweden, as it would be considered quite the upset if some one outside of top 50 beat some one inside the top 10. Seeing as the ranking is the victorian ranking and not the Aussie ranking makes it all the more sensational.
 
Still no answer as to how good Henzell was when he left Aussie to play in Sweden? Did he have a senior ranking back then, and if so, what was it? I do think he begun in div 3 when he first arrived here, which should tell something about the level we have here.
 
Further on, I have to agree with Biggy, his post where he said he "would beat everyone in Rob's clips" is to be read out as how hard it is to judge the level of players from video alone, cause later in that post, Biggy says how he thought he would beat Greg with ease, but it turned out to be a close defeat and proof that they play at roughly the same level.