how good are these players.

[speedplay]

perfection is unattainable and I think when some people look at vids unless they see perfection they downgrade the player, yet they can rationalise it when they see themself in a vid making a blunder.  Its somewhat human nature, but depending on the human some are more forgiving of what they see than others.

And it is this that we have been accusing Rob of, when he have looked at other players and thought he could beat them. Being a neutral watcher, I can see that there is a huge gap in level between Rob and Biggy/JKC. If you look at Biggy's game, it's hard to find any flaws, at least for a player of my lvel, but I'm still sure a player like Henzell could find stuff in Biggy's game that needs improvement. As for JKC, his unconventional style makes it easier to find errors in, but, it does look like it's working for him, so perhaps it isn't error after all? Now Rob seems to get offended as soon as I mention pushes, but the thing is, I'm sure that the push is often the best option for him, so I'm not saying he is wrong to push, what I'm saying is that higher levelplayers don't push as much, they tend to open up more and loop away.

[Silver]

I just checked the ITTF site, and his highest ranking was about 1300, Gerada's was 100 - how do you figure he'd beat Gerada.
Hey Silver what do you reckon BE's been on the spirits again, I doubt either player would beat our over 40's & 50's Aust Champ.

Yep, probably , but it might be just lunchtime drinks.

Sharad? Jonsey tells me that Sharad was a 2nd league Bundesliga player a while back... hrm... Garth does have that ridiculous forehand but he makes a few too many mistakes for my liking plus his backhand isn't anywhere near the level of his forehand.

I suspect it would go either way against Sharad. Depends if he can deal with the forehand...

Against Gerada, Im leaning towards Gerada but I wouldn't put money on it. Both are quite big hitters but I think that Garth's forehand is better while Gerada's backhand is better. Again, I think Garth just makes a few too many mistakes. That last clip that was posted I feel he should have won in the 11-8 vicinity rather than going all the way to 15-13 or 16-14 or whatever.

Oh and biggy, Henzell lives in Victoria these days haha.

[Silver]

I've also heard the "played bad" excuse a lot of times

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that "played bad" means that they're playing at their regular level - anything above what they displayed in the video is them playing off their head.

[big ears]

There is a problem now that blocker has gone, he kept the lid on the danegdong dreamers club, now they have gone out of control stupidly.

[pingpongrob]

There is a problem now that blocker has gone, he kept the lid on the danegdong dreamers club, now they have gone out of control stupidly.

I dont even think Blocker was from Dandenong, or even that area - otherwise he would have known about more of the players standards in the clips.  I got a feeling Blocker was from a club where we dont have any members on this Forum - And I think its close to my area - the plot thickens.

I will make sure that Dandenong doesn't become the dreamers club, I think Coburg might get that award.

[speedplay]

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that "played bad" means that they're playing at their regular level - anything above what they displayed in the video is them playing off their head.

Truer words have seldom been spoken. To many people tend to judge their level according to how they play when they are on fire and I've read more then one time about players who have won against players rated this or that, so this is their true level, but, due to some circumstances, they are still rated a lot lower. Strange, why don't they judge their level according to their losses instead, such as, I lost to a player rated X, so I'm not better then that.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

There is a problem now that blocker has gone, he kept the lid on the danegdong dreamers club, now they have gone out of control stupidly.

Hmmm, well given you can't even spell the name Dandenong, I'm wondering who the stupid one is?

As for blocker, you couldn't say where he was from. Might not even be Aussie. Seemed more like a typical Pom to me. If he did reveal his identity to you Biggy, who knows whether he told you the truth? Might have had you on too!

[Silver]

Hmmm, well given you can't even spell the name Dandenong, I'm wondering who the stupid one is?

Reb this isn't warranted. I don't expect him to be able to spell it just as SP doesn't expect me to be able to spell a third of the names in Sweden...

[big ears]

.

[big ears]

He told me the truth, and its right there infront of you guys, I read it in print, and I like to spell Dandenong wrong on purpose, read back Reb. By 'in print' I mean it was published, then transferred to the web, Blocker was a top player, the funniest thing I ever heard was that you doubt it, read back some of your comments Reb, about Blockers 'uncanny' ability to make quality posts that were to the point and correct, you said it more than once. The reason he could do this, is because he is a high level player. How could a 'noob' make a comment on Robs footwork problem when moving to play a wide ball? You really have to know what you are saying to come out with that stuff. As I remember, the advice was that Robs footwork was terminal as he played out wide, weight on the wrong foot, giving no chance for recovery. I saw it and agreed with Blocker, Rob then made some excuse up about him having a good b/hand, Blocker then exlpained that this would be a real problem if the next ball was down Rob's B'hand, He was totally correct IMO as a Coach. How possibly can someone come out with that if they are nothing more than a top player?

[Silver]

I guess I take that back then reb :P

[speedplay]

Yes, I think it was obvious from the very start that Blocker was a quality player due to his understanding of the game. I'm a noob player with a slightly better understanding then playing ability, but I couldn't spot half the things until Blocker mentioned them. Once he did, I went back and checked and they all turned out to be true. I mean, I noticed Rob was late to his bh corner, but I thought it was all down to bad footwork, but Blocker was able to pinpoint the problem and explain what it was about the footwork that was wrong. It's this information that is so valuable.

I'm often praised for my foot work, but I know my self it's horrible. The reason I'm praised is because I can run down almost every ball, but with good footwork, I would probably be able to do something useful of the return as well. As it is now, I can retrieve the ball and wait for the next rocket to come. Sure, it wins me some points as people actually do miss some times, but it would be so much more rewarding if I could do something with the ball as well.

Also remember the video I posted, Blocker almost got it all right about their level and he even pointed out that one of the players probably had been a much better player in his youth, which was correct. Don't know about you guys, but it's those small things that impresses me, a lot more then any knowledge about the latest equipment,even if I still find that interesting.

[Silver]

Strange, why don't they judge their level according to their losses instead, such as, I lost to a player rated X, so I'm not better then that.

Mmmm imagine if one of those other forums adopted that policy.

"I lost to a player rated 2500, so I'm not better than that!"

[big ears]

I don't think either BE or myself played absolutely flat out, although we were both trying to win of course.

At the time, I'd put BE and myself at around the same level. BE plays tougher than he looks on video, and I'd say the same for myself. Match us up 100 times and we'd both win our share I'm sure.  Anyway, that was 2 years ago, when I was a defensive chopper with a pick hit backhand, and no forehand to speak of. But at the time I felt we were both pretty much around the same level, give or take a bit either way. I'm sure BE hasn't lost anything from his game in 2 years.


I haven't been training much this year (which shows in the amount of weight I've gained), and I spent most of it two wing looping, only changing to a close to the table combi bat game with a fast forehand rubber a few months before the Vets. What I did do was improve my forehand technique considerably, and improve my serving a little as well.  Tactically I went much more aggressive, which helped a lot when standing up to the table. And I'm pretty tough to play against if you don't play against aggressive long pip twiddlers all that much.

So I ended up as the #2 on the O/40 order of merit, but it could have been down as low as 5 or 6 if I'd lost a couple of close ones instead, which certainly could have happened. But I'm by no means the same player that played BE two years ago - and I'm not saying I'm better - but I'm certainly a different style.



I did play with Rob in a fun knock up, but he had just come back from his knee reconstruction, and we were just hitting around. Enough to see he's no bunny, but just how good I don't know.

What does all this mean? Well, BE is a very good player, and I'd be surprised if he couldn't be up there in our top 10 O/40 vets somewhere in the top range, depending on form and training of course. Rob can play, but I'm not qualified to comment on his top level. If SupaChop is Webby, then everybody has respect for his game, including me, but I've never played him.

 just to refresh your fading memory Rob.....

[pingpongrob]

just to refresh your fading memory Rob.....

Just to refresh your memory, if supachop is webby, then i have a lot of respect for his game - did you see those words. Top 18 in Victoria, he travels over 100klm's every Tuiesday night to traine with me, do you think he would do this is I was a noob......
Why dont you setup a hit between myself and GL, next time he's down in Vic. He can Video the matchg to see how bad I really am.

[Der Echte]

arlene, please pass me that big bowl of pocorn. It's getting interesting again.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

arlene, please pass me that big bowl of pocorn. It's getting interesting again.

Oops! I forgot to tell Arlene you were missing her Der. 

[arlene]

I'm not getting pulled into this Der 

I'm now playing in Dandenong as we have moved in this area. They've put me in A4 and after 3rd round tonight, I finally got my first single's win.... yippee!

One thing BE said that struck me.... about following your serve... very true. At a high level, serves would not really be a problem as they can be read, it's how you follow up your serve that will win you the point.... and being aggressive on the receiving end etc....

So much about this sport to learn. I take my hat off to Rob. He runs a successful business, he is busy all the time and yet finds the time to get his weekly coaching sessions, sets Tuesdays aside for his practice sessions with Supachop and Andrew, and plays pennant in 2 clubs, aside from that he reads self help books on how to improve his game; so not only the physical part of table tennis but most importantly the mental aspect of the game.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

You won one Arlene, congrats!!! 

I ended up only winning one singles last night  I did win 2 doubles at least so the team scraped in the win! Phew!

[Der Echte]

arlene, wasn't trying to pull you into anything. Good to see you succeeding a little.

I notice that when I am agressive on receive (with success), I am good to go. I already am very agressive on serve/3rd ball attack. BE rings true on that stuff. One thing that is killing me right now is not moving in enough on the serve recieve. (Like putting right leg WAY deep under table) That makes it very low percentage for a flick attempt. When I manage it, I am in good position / balance / ready / looking over ball. I see it better and have a way better racket angle, shot, and follow through. Bad deal is I do not yet instinctively move in/under like that for the short serve 80% of the time.

I asked our trainer about that and besides getting another 10,000 reps, she said it is good practice to take a mini/micro hop right at serve impact, then hop forward (instead of step) into position. Right away, I can see this as good for making the feet move better, but I think I will need a LOT of reps to make it natural and instinctive. When I DO move in, I smack our club's top two player's short serve back at their elbow or by them on BH corner with BH flick or down FH line with FH flick. Gosh I wish I could be able to get into position at least 1/2 the time on this soon. That would be progress.

[speedplay]

And when you do hop/step in, how do you handle the fast long serves? This is my main worry, cause if I know the serve will be short, then most of the time I can attack it, but how often do we know this for sure? If I anticipate a short serve, but gets a long, I'm out of the rally before it's even started.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

You guys must get much higher short serves than I generally get or deliver! Short serves are generally only attackable if they bounce around net height or more. I've had guys of pretty high level put my serves in the net or send it long because they think they can attack it and misjudge that fact. Occasionally I do bounce the serve a little higher than intended and a good player can flick it back in a way its either their point or makes my return very reflex. A player who is ready for this is often the same player who dumps it in the net when I get the height just right though. Speedplay with your reach and agility I would have thought reaching a short serve off the ready position of body at arm and bats length from the table should be fairly easy. I don't move all that well, but I start in the position and do that short hop inward for a short serve, although my reach is less and I generally look for awkward angular placement than attack of a short serve (unless its prime for a smash/flick).

[Der Echte]

And when you do hop/step in, how do you handle the fast long serves? This is my main worry, cause if I know the serve will be short, then most of the time I can attack it, but how often do we know this for sure? If I anticipate a short serve, but gets a long, I'm out of the rally before it's even started.

The mini hop is at serve impact and the hop forward is supposed to be once you see where the first bounce is going. Yes, I agree that moving in too soon will like end in disaster. I will need a gazillion reps to get it down I think. It helps not to be constantly worn out, which is an excuse, but a true condition often. I am always trying to do too much in life.

[speedplay]

Reb, all serves are attackable, regardless of how low you make them. It's all about the level of the short game. At my own level, no one attacks my short serves, but when I play agains better players, they seem to attack it at will.

Der_Echte, I think my main problem is that if I want to attack a short serve, I need to attack it as soon as possible, but if I wait to actually see the bounce of it before I move in, then I'm to late to attack it. Don't know if I should put this down to slow reaction, but it does trouble me a lot.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Reb, all serves are attackable, regardless of how low you make them. It's all about the level of the short game. At my own level, no one attacks my short serves, but when I play agains better players, they seem to attack it at will.

True, but you have to go to a very high level to attack my good short serves successfully. Above club level here in Oz. If I make a mistake, higher level club players can attack them. In my Monday division it wants to be a bad mistake for that to happen generally. Its more likely on Thursdays, but still it is usually a point winner - its a fine line to put in a short serve that looks attackable but isn't and ends in sad face for them 

[speedplay]

True, but you have to go to a very high level to attack my good short serves successfully. Above club level here in Oz. If I make a mistake, higher level club players can attack them. In my Monday division it wants to be a bad mistake for that to happen generally. Its more likely on Thursdays, but still it is usually a point winner - its a fine line to put in a short serve that looks attackable but isn't and ends in sad face for them 

I put this down to deception, which is what a good serve is all about, but even a "bad" serve can win you the point, if it's deceptive enough.

[Der Echte]

I sometimes like to do that. I make a serve that looks like weak chop, but is heavy. I leave it on th eFh high enough to make someone want to whack away, usally into the net.