Developing my game but not my level?

[speedplay]

I'm hoping that some experienced player's can help me to find the answer here, cause it does confuse me. Lately (the last year) I feel I have developed my game a lot, I'm able to loop almost anything that I want to and I have good consistency with it. My blocks have improved as well and evenmy crappy serve have become slightly better. Not to mention my footwork, I think I move a lot more (read better) now then I've ever done before.

Still, I don't feel that my level have improved, or, at least not as much as my game! Players who gave me trouble when my loop was inconsistent and I did a lot of pushing, still give me trouble. My winning average against them might be slightly better, but I some how feel that the way my game have improved, I should crush these guys, as I was able to beat them before, but, I still struggle.

Why? Is it because the level is still so low so a decent pusher/blocker will still cause me trouble until I've developed even further? Is there something else that could explain this?

[big ears]

Its because you have to develop a structured game. A game that for the most part you are confident with and control. Even when you are being outclassed by a far better player, If you have a structured game you will at least get past the initial sh/game exchange, if not you are toast. BUT if you have a structured game, when you play a player that you should beat, you will 99 times out of a 100, beat them. This is what I do speedy, so whilst you and I know I'm not a world beater, I rarely lose to players below my standard, unlike some players who are actually better than me technically, who do, therefore I end up ranked above them.

[speedplay]

I think I have a some what structured game, but perhaps I'm over-estimatingmy imporvement, as a lot of it can be put down to me changing my game?

I used to play defensive, always chopping from bh, and mixing loops, chops and lifts from fh, while I mostly played from a couple of meters behind the table. Now days, I play a lot closer to the table, I try to open up and attack as soon as possible and work a lot to step around and use my fh and only rely on my by when I'm forced to.

So, perhaps I'm developing a new game, which is why I lose structure? Also, I might not improve my level, but meerly thinking I am, since I change my game.

So, to move forward, I either need to keep up with this and accept that it will take time, or I'll need to wisen up and know when to play what?

[blocker]

It's a bit of a mystery Speedy. Normally the biggest jump in standard you make is when you can consistently loop anything you want, so strictly speaking you should be whooping the pusher/blocker types. BE's structured game comment is very wise and whilst you think your game is fully structured it could still be in transition (??). Also, even if your game is fairly structured it still takes time to get used to the new RHYTHM of the new structure. There is a big difference between (1) your old style of pushing around;  and (2) your new style of moving well and opening up as soon as possible. This difference is not just one of strokes and tactics but also one of rhythm. Everything may not be quite second nature for you yet - you movements may not yet naturally flow from one stroke to the next. This, amongst other things, can lead to little (important) losses in time. This might sound a bit New Agey but I hope it makes some sense.

Another (related) thing worth looking at is your balance. Your new style obviously requires a lot more continuous movement and whilst your footwork has no doubt improved it still may not be flowing naturally and efficiently from one stroke to the next. This can lead to some degree of imbalance which in turn can affect your strokes - particularly in the area of weight-transference.

Overall, despite the silly rubber on your BH  I'm sure you are on the right track. Just stick to your guns and pretty soon beating pusher/blocker types should be routine. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of you playing!



 

[pingpongrob]

It's a bit of a mystery Speedy. Normally the biggest jump in standard you make is when you can consistently loop anything you want, so strictly speaking you should be whooping the pusher/blocker types. BE's structured game comment is very wise and whilst you think your game is fully structured it could still be in transition (??). Also, even if your game is fairly structured it still takes time to get used to the new RHYTHM of the new structure. There is a big difference between (1) your old style of pushing around;  and (2) your new style of moving well and opening up as soon as possible. This difference is not just one of strokes and tactics but also one of rhythm. Everything may not be quite second nature for you yet - you movements may not yet naturally flow from one stroke to the next. This, amongst other things, can lead to little (important) losses in time. This might sound a bit New Agey but I hope it makes some sense.

Another (related) thing worth looking at is your balance. Your new style obviously requires a lot more continuous movement and whilst your footwork has no doubt improved it still may not be flowing naturally and efficiently from one stroke to the next. This can lead to some degree of imbalance which in turn can affect your strokes - particularly in the area of weight-transference.

Overall, despite the silly rubber on your BH  I'm sure you are on the right track. Just stick to your guns and pretty soon beating pusher/blocker types should be routine. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of you playing!

This video will be long awaited.
Blockers are no easy pushover Speedplay, thats what they do best, And a good blocker will be more consistant in a match than an Average looper.
Sometime's although we improve our standard (Shots), our selection of shots in a match can be wrong, which will not help you win games.
Its about being able to play freely without hesitation, Thinking can be to slow sometimes, and shot selection should be Automatic and instantanious.
Sometimes we even try and overplay a shot just because we have been practicing it a lot, yet in a match scenario this could be the differance between winning winning or losing.

[blocker]

Speaking as an average blocker I agree that good blockers are no easy pushovers, just so long as the rest of their game is fairly tight. I could be wrong but I think Speedy was referring to the looser pusher/blocker types who tend to populate the lower sections. These types of players freely push long and give you ample opportunity to loop at will and, as such, should be easy to beat for someone with a sound loop. It's a bit like fighting a boxer who drops his gloves and gives you a free punch before he begins to box. 

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Is it possible these players you are playing have also improved Speedplay? We sometimes look at our own game in a vacuum without considering that the opponents also have progressed and got more consistent.

Speaking of blockers, I played one the other night who was a blocker of all blockers. She had 755 on her BH and used it mainly to cover the table. Required an extremely consistent and patient game to play her. She is renown in our club for being a wall, even among the higher levels. Her game will never take her much above where she is at now, but she will let you beat yourself easily if you're not careful. I beat her 3:1 dropping one set 12-10 which I wasn't too bothered by as I knew how to beat her just let my guard drop slightly in one set (and was distracted by a fight going on on the court opposite us LOL). Anyway, she beat both my teammates, or should I say, she let them beat themselves. Both these teammates are better than average loopers who can loop most anything. Picking the right shot at the right time is still crucial in this situation and impatience was their downfalls.

[speedplay]

First, I'm pretty certain that most of the opponents I'm talking about haven't improved their game, as they are past their peak a long time ago.

We have a former elite player here, but he is soon to turn 60, and even if he opens ups, he is still one of the player's I could beat before (when my looping % was a lot lower) but one that I still truggle with today, when my loop is a much higher % shot.

Blocker, the player's I'm talking about are mostly really low level player's, but they have played the game for 10-40 years, so they have developed their style to perfection and even if they can't loop with consistency them self, they can block and counter pretty well and perhaps this is why I still struggle? I could out push them before, parlty by using the anti for deception, but now I'm playing in to their streghts instead?

Rob, I think you are right about shot selection, I tend to over use the fh-loop at the moment and should really work more on my bh loop so I don't have tomove as much.

[blocker]

Blocker, the player's I'm talking about are mostly really low level player's, but they have played the game for 10-40 years, so they have developed their style to perfection and even if they can't loop with consistency them self, they can block and counter pretty well and perhaps this is why I still struggle?

Speedy I take it you work fairly hard on your game and you eventually would like to play at a higher level/division than you currently do. If this is the case you need to start playing the type of game you would play at that higher level and not worry about short term losses or setbacks. (I remember once reading an article by Hasegawa where he said something like - 'aim high and be patient with the bitterness you experience along the way'.) If you eventually play in a stronger division you won't be trying to push your opponents off so don't try and do it now. If your current opponents are kind enough to push long to you and give you the initiative then take advantage of it and try to dominate them with your loop. There is a reason why most of those players have never progressed beyond a certain level.

Your suggestion working harder on your BH loop is probably a good idea also.

I wouldn't rely on getting cheap points with your anti because once you play players above a certain level they will eat the anti for breakfast (or a Swedish smorgasbord). Have you considered using something like short pimples on your BH? It would be far less of a liability against good players.

[speedplay]

Trying to make a long story short here;

The player's I'm talking about are the player's in the local league, and last year I went 40-4 in that league, which I'm pretty pleased with. These player's don't develop, at least not much, and pushing seems to be the way almost everyone prefers to play, even if the counter on oppurtunity.

Then I also play in a regional league, the player's in this league are of a mixed standard, everything from old veterans to young and rising kids. In this league, almost everyone tries to get the initiative and attack first. Last year, we came second and got promoted to div 4. If I can reach a level that allows me to have good results here, I'm happy. Of course it would be fun to play even higher up in the league system, but I think it is almost out of reach for me, and it's starting to become a little to serious, with matches every week end. Wouldn't go well with my woman With this said, there is still room for plenty of improvement, as I do belive I'm one of the weaker player's in this division.

Now, about the short pips, I've tried it on several occations and Rob here was even nice enough to send me a sheet for free to try. The thing is, I simply can not use SP! How ever, I have, and still am, considering going for double inverted. I've actually glued up a bat with 2 inverted rubbers that I intend to use every now and then for practice to see how it goes. The main reason for the change is that my game have gone towars more offensive then it used to be.

[blocker]

Fair enough Speedy. If you don'y have any lofty ambitions then maybe its best to go to inverted both sides - its more fun and its far more noble  . I appreciate what you say about short pips - if you dont have a certain type of BH (firmish wrist and upright bat) it can be a waste of time. In any case, I reckon you should try letting your hair down and really go for your shots. You might surprise yourself  . good luck!

 

[Der Echte]

Martin, if your opponent can predict where you are going and do not put enough "Hot Sauce" on that loop, it is too easy for hte blocking dude to block wide or fast to an area uncomfortable to you and place you under pressure. Executing a block that you can see coming a mile away can be done safely with a high%. Maybe there is room to improve the depth/placement, or even the pace of your opening loops.

When I was a crappy USATT1600ish dude fresh new in Korea, one of our club mates could loop with mega spin, but it was easy to see where he was looping and all I had to do was block wide and win the point.

[blocker]

Martin, if your opponent can predict where you are going and do not put enough "Hot Sauce" on that loop, it is too easy for hte blocking dude to block wide or fast to an area uncomfortable to you and place you under pressure. Executing a block that you can see coming a mile away can be done safely with a high%. Maybe there is room to improve the depth/placement, or even the pace of your opening loops.

Spot on Der Echte! I agree 100%.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Yep have to agree. If loops are predictable, they are breakfast. I rarely block them unless they are fast, I simply smash them back past my opponent. My new teammate I have been practicing with most weekends had a FH loop like this and I have beat it out of him by making him pay every time he dishes it up. Now his loops are lower, faster and much less predictable and he is a better player for it (well in practice anyway, in real matches his bad habits creep back in, but eventually he will convert the practice into matches). He used to play pips on his BH and made the switch to dual inverted over a year ago. Now his BH loop is possibly better than his FH. He has 2 good knees to go with it though 

Speedplay, I reckon go dual inverted, go through some development pain and you won't regret it in a year or less. You might just have to experiment to find the right BH rubbers at the right times for you. Looking at what Richard did, he went for a slower BH rubber to begin with and used Joola defense. He then moved on and tried Outlaw but had the durability problems. So then had Tango. Now he has Hexer PS in 1.9 on BH and 2.1 on FH and it works very nicely for him.

[speedplay]

Fair enough Speedy. If you don'y have any lofty ambitions then maybe its best to go to inverted both sides - its more fun and its far more noble  . I appreciate what you say about short pips - if you dont have a certain type of BH (firmish wrist and upright bat) it can be a waste of time. In any case, I reckon you should try letting your hair down and really go for your shots. You might surprise yourself  . good luck!

This is exactly what I've done with my fh and I'm surprised my self at how well it have worked. As for the "more sauce" part, when ever a ball comes back, it is easy to say add more power and spin, but if I already use all my power and spin, then what? Not going to claim that all my loops land near the endline, but I do think I have pretty good depth on them, even if there are exceptions.

As for them being predictable, there is some truth to this, as I'm often hitting fh from my bh corner, I'm more or less forced to play it diagonally, which makes it easier for them to predict where it will come (it will always come from their right, so all they have to do is move to the left according to my shot and how much angle I get on it) and this is why I've been thinking about inverted, to perhaps "force" them to not always go for my wide bh corner with their returns.
 
Not sure what loop's you are talking about Reb, cause a good loop is never breakfast, at least not for me, even if I know where it is coming. A high loop might be breakfast, but I don't do high loops (unless opponent have difficulties with spin) cause I'm more of a loop-driver. Since I play it mostly from my bh corner, I "must" kill it, or else it will get blocked back to my fh corner, so I can't afford the luxury of using a slow opening loop. Unless I can really load it with spin, but this requires great footwork to be in good position, but if I can do that, then I canload it up with spin and prepare for the block and attack it.

[big ears]

Yep have to agree. If loops are predictable, they are breakfast. I rarely block them unless they are fast, I simply smash them back past my opponent.

 well it just goes to show, there are loops, and there are loops, coz I play plenty of players who's loops are predictable, predictably loaded and deep, and believe me, they are not 'smashable' by anyone...... with any degree of consistency.

[blocker]

well it just goes to show, there are loops, and there are loops, coz I play plenty of players who's loops are predictable, predictably loaded and deep, and believe me, they are not 'smashable' by anyone...... with any degree of consistency.

I'm sure this is the case in your league BE but in Dandenong it is common place. Dandenong comp is freakishly strong. 

[blocker]

This is exactly what I've done with my fh and I'm surprised my self at how well it have worked.

Great. If you stick to trying to do 'advanced' shots and play an 'advanced' game you might surprise yourself. You are not too old to become a reasonably accomplished player - even with the restrictions placed upon you by your better half.

[Der Echte]

I hope I emphisized DEPTH as one of the things to shoot for on openers. Another thing I KNOW I forgot to include in my unwanted advise is VARIETY of the spin/speed. Being unpredictable and high percentage is golden. It lets you get away with shots that would normaly get punished at or above your level. If you use the same (even if it is a very fast/spinny loop) loop style, then the opponent (if he is even above noob level) will adjust and make you pay the price of failure. I get that sometimes from some of hte blockers on shots where I step around and do NOT vary my spin/speed. Then THEY are the ones who say "By 'Ya" and I am the one picking up the ball getting pissed for losing the point, even though I attacked. (Nothing overly wrong there, at least the strong attack landed and I can accept that better than missing the ball or shot.)

Martin, you will have to clear ou some floor space where bugs are not crawling around, because when I visit you, I will have to be there a minimum of one week to understand you and get you crazy drunk and storytelling after matches.

[Der Echte]

I'm sure this is the case in your league BE but in Dandenong it is common place. Dandenong comp is freakishly strong. 

The shakehand BH fast drive is one of the greatest equalizers out there. Too bad I do not anticipate using it more often.

[speedplay]

I hope I emphisized DEPTH as one of the things to shoot for on openers. Another thing I KNOW I forgot to include in my unwanted advise is VARIETY of the spin/speed. Being unpredictable and high percentage is golden. It lets you get away with shots that would normaly get punished at or above your level. If you use the same (even if it is a very fast/spinny loop) loop style, then the opponent (if he is even above noob level) will adjust and make you pay the price of failure. I get that sometimes from some of hte blockers on shots where I step around and do NOT vary my spin/speed. Then THEY are the ones who say "By 'Ya" and I am the one picking up the ball getting pissed for losing the point, even though I attacked. (Nothing overly wrong there, at least the strong attack landed and I can accept that better than missing the ball or shot.)

You did point out the depth, and I did reply that I think most of my attacks have a pretty good depth, al though there is always room for improvement.

I do hope I variate the spin, cause some times I loop drive, some times I attack flat and sometimes I loop with all focus on spin. There is how ever some restrictions to each of these, as a loop drive is the highest % shot for me, but it also seems to be the shot that makes me the most vulnerable, cause this is the shot that is easiest to block back fast and it's also the shot that most people are good at blocking. The flat hit is more effective as it is harder to block with good consistency, but it requires a higher ball to attack. The loop, al though it is block-able, rarely puts me ouf of position as I don't carry enough speed to be blocked back fast. On the other hand, if the opponent spots it, it leaves room for a counter attack.
 
I also feel that it is better to go for the shot and lose the point, then it is to play cowardly and lose the point. At least, if I go for the shot, I give my self a good chance at winning the point.
 
Your advice is as welcome as any other poster's advice, but I think that we (lower level player's) tend to look a littel to much at how we think the game should be played and give the textbook answer, while higher level player's often have knowledge about the small things that we might miss.
 
So, back on track, despite the fact that I feel I have developed my game, which have given me more options in most situations, I still struggle against the same player's I used to struggle against before. I think a lot has to do with shot selection and also, my old game resulted in some what predictable rallies, while my "new" style brings out different returns from the opponents and I have to get used to those returns as well.