Talent vs. Practice

[arlene]

I am presently reading "Bounce" by Matthew Syed... a 3 time Commonwealth table tennis champion from England and his book argues the idea of a God-given talent to be a myth, and that the key to achieving greatness lies in hard work and the right attitude and training.  In order to reach the "elite" level he reckons you need to practice 1000 hours a year for 10 years.... and hitting a ball  is not the same as practice.... you have to challenge yourself... he calls it "purposeful practice". 

The Williams sisters in tennis, Tiger Woods in golf.... all of them had parents that believed in this concept, the thing that I wonder about is, how come they look forward to hitting balls hours and hours on end, without getting burned-out? But on second thought, if the coach (parent in this instance) makes the practice session enjoyable, I reckon it would not seem like work, and getting better is the reward itself. 

Aside from Pennant play and tournaments, I practice 2 1/2 to 3 hours a week, roughly 140 hours a year.... I guess I'll never be elite 

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I think there is a certain level of god-given talent in a person for all sports, but I think there is no substitute for practice to develop whatever level that talent takes a person to. A person with a greater talent than another won't necessarily be better if the other has put a lot more effort into their development.

I practice more or less the same amount as you Arlene, so I'll never be elite. But then I never expected to be either!

[speedplay]

I practice roughly 6 hours a week, but I don't expect to become a pro.

When it comes to the question of talent and practice, I think you need a hue portion of both to reach the top level. How ever, TT is a sport where you actually can get pretty far by hard work, even if you are with out talent. Talent on the other hand will make it easier for you to learn, but with out practice, you won't get very far.

I think I'm slightly above average when it comes to talent, but not enough to become really good. Still, I don't think the lack of talent is the reason I haven't progressed further, cause with more training, and above all, better training, I'm sure I could still develop my game a lot. But, I'm happy with my current level and al though I try to improve, having fun is the most important for me.

[big ears]

I've been in the position of putting 1000 hours a year in, and it got me from what we call in UK 'local league' standard, to high national standard in about three years. Where the talent vs effort scenario comes in is when you get 50 players all working hard and putting the required hours in, thats when the talent rises above the rest. Be careful of the term 'talent' though, is being mentally superior  a 'talent'?  I say it is, and is having the ability to perform to your potential under pressure a 'talent? I say that also is. What is clear, is that many many young players with seemingly endless talent, who are predicted for greatness don't make it, and others who are not particularly outstanding as youngsters, do.
In my locality, my club, my city, I'm seen as being 'talented' I play all sorts of seemingly 'unbelievable' shots, trick shots etc, but only because I stand out as a better player than everyone else, then when i play national competitions, I'm just erm..... ordinary.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Have to agree with Biggie. Talent that crushes under pressure isn't the talent some may have thought it to be. Although talent that stands up under the pressure of, say, a local competition vs. talent that can stand up to thousands of onlookers you would say the latter is better. That seems clearcut. What about the talent that never gets to a place where it gets tested under such pressure, does it mean its less talent? Very hard to say. Should talent really be judged by the pressure felt being exerted by the opponent or by the audience?

[speedplay]

Have to agree with Biggie. Talent that crushes under pressure isn't the talent some may have thought it to be. Although talent that stands up under the pressure of, say, a local competition vs. talent that can stand up to thousands of onlookers you would say the latter is better. That seems clearcut. What about the talent that never gets to a place where it gets tested under such pressure, does it mean its less talent? Very hard to say. Should talent really be judged by the pressure felt being exerted by the opponent or by the audience?

If it's not tested under such pressure, then there is no way to know if you got the talent or not. I've always performed better with a big audience, but that have been in sports where I've had good skills and completely trust in my ability. Not sure how a big audience would affect my TT.

[big ears]

If it's not tested under such pressure, then there is no way to know if you got the talent or not. I've always performed better with a big audience, but that have been in sports where I've had good skills and completely trust in my ability. Not sure how a big audience would affect my TT.

 Then you my friend may have missed you boat, actually Speedy, from what I know about you, only through cyber space of course, but never the less probably accurately, You would have made a higher level, you seem confident to me, not nervous, alas, you can only do what you really wish you could have done, by using these forums, which you show increadibly well you missed your potential. Still, on TT forums you are somewhere in the top 10, so don't be dissalutioned, I mean on TT forums top 10 In the WORLD, if there was a forum ranking of quality TT posters, Now there IS a thought......

[speedplay]

A top 10 poster is actually a good achievement, probably my best when it comes to TT

In other sport's, I've always been confident in my ability and enjoyed the pressure of big matches. Unofortunately, this doesn't always transfer in to TT. Not sure if it is because of age, or the fact that I begun playing so late, but when it comes to TT I'm more awear of my weaknessess then of my strenghts. This leads me in to playing a to cautious style. How ever, my best performances have been infront of audience of ~50 people, soperhapsI would need abigger audience toperform? Now, if only TT was a bigger sport, cause it is highly unlikely that I will get a big audience at my level. Heck, football at the grass-root level draws a bigger crowd then ourtopleague in TT does.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Actually I never thought about it much Speedplay, but I probably perform better when I have people watching than not. And its generally been the more the better. I don't get the chance to play in front of many people though as a rule. But then no-one really does at club level.

[big ears]

BTW everyone, I started reading 'bounce' yesterday and it really is a good read, although many of the principles are familliar to me, and I feel at times he re-iterates the point too much, which feels like he's padding out.

[JKC]

I have been wanting to get hold of it for months, but finally got round to getting it off ebay yesterday. Looking forward to a good read.

[big ears]

I have been wanting to get hold of it for months, but finally got round to getting it off ebay yesterday. Looking forward to a good read.

 Well, according to the book, Fred is bang on to make it as a pro.......if you get your 10'000 hours in before you are 12/13, you are virtually at the top of the tree.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Well, according to the book, Fred is bang on to make it as a pro.......if you get your 10'000 hours in before you are 12/13, you are virtually at the top of the tree.

Depends on what girls he meets along the way 

[JKC]

Well, according to the book, Fred is bang on to make it as a pro.......if you get your 10'000 hours in before you are 12/13, you are virtually at the top of the tree.

I think it will be highly unlikely that he will get his time in by then, that would mean more 3 hours a day every day which is something he would have to decide he wanted. He is currently getting about 8-10 hours a week which is plenty for now. Who knows maybe when he gets a little older and realises how good he is then he might get more hungry.

Depends on what girls he meets along the way 

We have been told that he already has a girlfriend, but he always denies it.

[Der Echte]

Then, by the book, each one of us should be certified pro level smack talkers. 

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Then, by the book, each one of us should be certified pro level smack talkers. 

haha, very true!! Actually Der, with all your actual TT now, I don't know where you find time for forum smack 

[arlene]

Big Ears and JKC - glad you're reading the book. JKC you have the opportunity to make Fred the next "Timo Boll" of his generation. The book still does not really answer the question why some kids burn out and others persist and excel.

Anyway, I like reading inspirational stories about athletes, or people from all walks of life . I've been on the look out for "J-O Waldner: When the Feeling Decides" by Jens Felke. Anyone of you guys read this one?

[speedplay]

I've read it. It's a good book, but not much advice to players trying to improve their game. It does how ever tell a lot about J.O as a person and gives and insight to his achievement.