Equipment vs technique?

[pingpongrob]

I'm just a hacker so maybe there's a bit i don't see but i find it very hard to believe that a player can improve grades simply by changing equipment (i don't include LP etc here). I have been playing for over 30 years and i have never seen such a phenomenon. I also find it interesting that i have never come across a 'good' (non-LP) player who is an EJ. by all means experiment but I can't help feeling there is a placebo effect going on here.

I can asure you that is exactly what happened - the equipment brought out the best in his technique. He not only Jumped a grade, but climbed to top 6 in the club. And yes one side was LP's. I decided to make a defenders special out of his combo cause it worked so well.
I will video his style next time we play.
A lot of our club members hate LP's and dont understand the basics.

[blocker]

I can asure you that is exactly what happened - the equipment brought out the best in his technique. He not only Jumped a grade, but climbed to top 6 in the club. And yes one side was LP's. I decided to make a defenders special out of his combo cause it worked so well.
I will video his style next time we play.
A lot of our club members hate LP's and dont understand the basics.

yes, i can believe that with LP. its so easy to play against - i dont see why so many people have trouble.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

yes, i can believe that with LP. its so easy to play against - i dont see why so many people have trouble.

Maybe you just haven't played against the "right" LP players then blocker 

[blocker]

Maybe you just haven't played against the "right" LP players then blocker 

lol - indeed Reb indeed! I'm sure you would cut me to ribbons :)

[speedplay]

I can asure you that is exactly what happened - the equipment brought out the best in his technique. He not only Jumped a grade, but climbed to top 6 in the club. And yes one side was LP's. I decided to make a defenders special out of his combo cause it worked so well.
I will video his style next time we play.
A lot of our club members hate LP's and dont understand the basics.

Did he change from double inverted to one side LP one side inverted? If so, then I believe it is possible to take huge leaps forward, even if this says more about the opponents then about the player who raises in level, but it is possible. If he did change from one LP to another, I doubt there would be much difference in level.

I agree with Blocker, LP is really easy to play against, how ever, player's who actually play's with their LP's can create havoc for most.


A lot of people use LP and a few people actually play with them. There is a huge difference here. Against those who use the, if you know anything about how LP work, it is easy to play against them, but against those who play with them, it is never easy, but this actually has nothing to do with the LP, it is all about the player.

Now, Reb might get insulted here, but from what I've seen of him, he uses the LP, he relies on the effect of the LP and don't make much with it him self. This is pretty much how I used to play with Super Block and had great success with it and for a long time, I thouught this was the way to use LP. Then I got to play againsdt a player who actually played with his LP and believe me, the difference is HUGE!!! He used his LP not to reverse the spin, but to manipulate it. Sometimes he chopped down really heavy, but still created a float, the next time, it looked as if he was blockingm, but the incoming backspin was massive. He used destroyer with a 1.0 sponge, not a decveptive LP in it self, but the way he used it, it was the most deceptive LP I've ever played against.

If any one wonder's, I got trashed by this guy and so did the rest of my team mates, despite being used to play against LP/Anti. Why? Because we were all used to play against LP users and not LP players.

[Der Echte]

Haha. Speedplay, you are obviously trying to bait Reb into a response. Reb describes his game as close to the table player who uses LP to flick and punch balls into uncomfortable places to get a return to pummle with the FH. Haha. I use the same tactics vs the LP players - I use light spin flick to the BH OX LP to get a long, light spin return to power drive by the LP player.

Better, I should defer to Reb for further comment.

I still agree with your observation that just changing LPs doesn't move the player up a level.

BTW, I just played a doubles match with a double inverted player as partner. his % on attacks from my serves ( I give excellent chances from my serves) was next to zero %. Next match against the same opponents, I got a 60 yr old granny with OX on BH. She stays close to table and punches/flicks everything BH to uncomfortable places. My opponents failed to attack her LP punches and I ATTACKED their returns by them for winnners time and time again. We won 3-0. Some people who play against LP well, mat struggle for a time against some other LP players.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Lol Der, you might be right. The only trouble with Speedplays assumption is the vid he saw of me playing was when I was in B3 at my club (or I might have just re-started from injury into B2). But basically I had less than a year's experience with LP. I have moved up to A5 grade since then, 3 grades higher and 18 months more experience and I have changed the way I play with my LP a massive amount. Teammates and opponents alike have noticed the difference bigtime. Opponents who used to find me an easy target have commented how they can no longer get close to me (when I last played them at the end of last season as they are still now in lower grades). I play a great variety of much higher quality opponents now and wouldn't stand a chance if I played a passive LP game. My game continues to progress and has even come a long way since just the start of this year. The change from Meteor to Pogo has allowed me to hit and place drives that have opponents struggling to return the skidding ball or just unable to reach the ball. My FH loop drives and smashes have become more and more consistent. I still have a way to go, but in the Masters comp where I am now playing 2nd division I am playing players 2 grades above me from the Seniors comp which is enriching my experience even more. I don't need to justify any of this on any forum because I know within myself where my game has come from and gone to, and it will always be a work-in-progress. But no-one else blows the trupet for you on here either lol. I am proud of what I have accomplished so far. I have taken many scalps this season, I had no chance of taking last season. A lot of that is due to the fact I am playing TT 3-4 times a week instead of once or twice, and some is due to change to Pogo which I've taken to like a duck to water.

I have no doubt Der knows what I am talking about here as he has moved from TT hell to TT heaven and the greater quality the opponents and the more TT exposure you get, the better you get. Its not rocket science, but it does take work. Fortunately, the work is fun!! 

[RebornTTEvnglist]

lol - indeed Reb indeed! I'm sure you would cut me to ribbons :)

Depends where you are in Melb, perhaps we should hook up for a game and see 

[speedplay]

Actually, I wasn't trying to a bit Reb, I know he have made progress, but in the video I've seen, he is clearly a LP user and not a LP player, pretty much like I was in the rare footage of me playing. I'm not saying that these players are easy to beat, but if you know how to play against LP, you stand a pretty good chance. With LP player's, it's not about knowing the pips and their effect, it is about actually reading the incoming spin and adapt to it in a split second.

I have no doubt that Reb have progressed in his way of using LP, but I still think he is a LP user rather then a player, as his style is more about using the properties of the LP then creating deception with them. Now, before any one get's the idea that I'm baiting him again, I admit that I'm more of a anti user then a player my self. We do have a anti player at the club and if he played to his full ability, I doubt I would get more then 3 points in a set against him and I'm sure he would white wash me every now and then. I've never played against him, but we have faced the same opponents and while I struggled to grab the win, 14-12 in the deciding set, he won 3-0, white washed the guy in the first set and then kept him below 4 points for the other two sets. Usually he don't white wash  his opponents, but since this guy made some stupid remarks about anti, he decided to do it to him. This is how good he is and I'm not any where near him when it comes to level of play and that is why I consider him a anti player and myself as an anti user.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Actually Speedplay I would consider myself in transition between user and player of LP. I would be a liar if I said I never make a passive block still. But changing and improving your game takes time and I have begun to take things from practice into matches a lot more which has paid big dividends. I'm talking primarily on the LP side because my FH strokes have been solid for a long time, although I also know I have made a gradual consistency improvement there. Opponents avoid my FH like the plague. So my BH has had a lot of "practice" LOL. As a result I have been working on not only the BH attack a lot, but also ways to force opponents to give me FH opportunities. I'm having bags of fun at the moment because I am beating opponent after opponent who doesn't expect it.

In A5 at the start of the season I lost every match in round 2 and 3 against the top 2 teams. In replaying these teams in round 6 and 7, I won 4 of these matches, including beating the leading player for the division 3-0. I've won 14 matches for the season so far. Leading player has only won 18. And the leading player came second leading player in A5 last season, as leading player went up to A4. One of the matches from those 2 rounds I didn't turn around was ironically against a guy who is an anti player (or maybe a user lol). I haven't played against a lot of anti players, but I do find this guy hard to play my natural game against. I will say though that since I changed from Meteor to Pogo I have won 10 out of 15 singles from my two competitions. Prior to Pogo this season, I had won 8 from 20 from both comps. I know it has added to my game because it gives me more confidence on my attack.