Long Pip Defender Versus All round player

[pingpongrob]

Wiggy,  When was Jeff Drew top 10 in Australia?
How do you rate him and the guy he played in that clip. Craig Cambell?

Hellooooo - do we get a response on this one.

[big ears]

Around the same time as Mike Johns, so a few yrs ago. Like I've said before, the difference between Aus and England is we have far more players, not better, just far more, so if you take the Aus top players they will be about the same, but the further down you go the more difference, lets say you take the top 10 players in every Aus city, how many players would that give you? Cos if you take the top ten players in every English city, you are talking about a hell of a lot of players. You still have not answered my question Rob, what is your Aus ranking, mens and vets?

 BTW, I got lost in the Q/f of the English national champs vets 0/40's a few weeks ago.

[pingpongrob]

Wiggy,  When was Jeff Drew top 10 in Australia?
How do you rate him and the guy he played in that clip. Craig Cambell?

Wiggy You still have no answerd the above question.
Remember I'm an up and coming player - my ranking keeps increasing her in my state, I did not play last year due to my knee reco, Thats not to say that you would beat me, as its your style that I prefer playing against, yet I hate playing combo player.  Now hats this is saying is that I would rate myself highly against you in a game, but would probably rate poorly if I played in your league due to the fact that I still dont have enough experience against all styles.

Now please tell us how you rate Craig Cambell and the guy that played in the clip.  I'm not interested in the depth of UK player.  With the population density that you have it only confirms that Table Tennis would be more popular as a sport than down under.  But please answer supachops question.

PS.  Well done getting to the QT's of the Over 40's.  Did JKC play.

[big ears]

I don't know when it was, I just know he went to Aus and became a top 10 player.

here is a clip from another forum, its a cut and paste, I don't like providing a link to another forum;
 Originally Posted by Wiggy63 
Jeff Drew? did he emigrate to Australia?

2007 Table Tennis West Australian State Open Mens Final

yes he did wiggy and became a top ten player in australia that was
around early 1980 he came back for one season around 1984-85 to
play in the dagenham league essex and went back to aussie.

I think the both guys in the clip are good players, you still have not answered my question about where you are ranked in Aus.

[pingpongrob]

Wiggy, is got nothing to do with my ranking.  I'm sure that if I lived in the UK, my ranking would be a good deal below yours - infact probably 100's below.
But does not change the fact that your style suits my game.  Its obvious by all comments on the forums that you are a quality player, that can overcome many styles of play.  Whereas I like playing players like yourself, but get stuck playing the awkward players.

Now looking at the clip you provided - do you think that both those players are quality player worthy of your ranking ?

Also if that was the 2007 West Australian Open Final, these 2 players must have beated Gregg Letts, therefore looking at this equation, you got beat by Gregg Letts, so therefore Both these players are better than you.  I know it dont work that way, but it sounds good. 

[big ears]

And how do you know that your style does not suit me? I get lots of good wins against young fast loopers, younger than you, fitter than you, faster and more powerful than you, which bit of your game am I going to struggle with? It certainly won't be consistency, cos thats what I do. At the end of the day, It all comes down to touch, Footwork, Serves and experience, and I feel confident that I come out top in every one...

[pingpongrob]

Now looking at the clip you provided - do you think that both those players are quality player worthy of your ranking ?

For some strange reason you are ignoring the above post & the one provided by Supachop.

As for me, I never said I was a fast looper - I beat plenty of juniours that play that way. I vary my loop, I vary the placement - Height Depth & Spin. My touch at the net is very good,  and my 2 best attributes are Return of serve (had plenty of practice against World 100 ranked players), and consistency even under pressure.

So it sounds like we have similar styles - it might just be the fitest and most mobile that survives, and that I am sure I am miles ahead of you.  But please respond to Supachops and My question.

[speedplay]

Rob,

for some one as eager as you to get your own questions answered, it's strange that you still haven't answered my question regarding the level of Aussie choppers compared to Swedish Choppers.

Also, your own answering regarding your own rating is a bit strange, cause perhaps Biggy feels it got something to do with it. I must admit, I tend to agree with him, cause you can not judge your level by your results in practice, neither can you judge it by your best win, you have to judge it by your over all performance and this is what your ranking shows. You might still be climbing the rankings, but your current ranking should show your current level.

[pingpongrob]

Rob,

for some one as eager as you to get your own questions answered, it's strange that you still haven't answered my question regarding the level of Aussie choppers compared to Swedish Choppers.

Also, your own answering regarding your own rating is a bit strange, cause perhaps Biggy feels it got something to do with it. I must admit, I tend to agree with him, cause you can not judge your level by your results in practice, neither can you judge it by your best win, you have to judge it by your over all performance and this is what your ranking shows. You might still be climbing the rankings, but your current ranking should show your current level.

Speedplay I never said I'm a better player than Wiggy, What I said what that I like my chances against him and his style of game.  So please lets not get it wrong.  I posted a video of myself playing Greggy, and Wiggy turned it into I'm better than you and thats a lousy game.

Now the question asked is whether the 2 fella in the clip are worthy of Wiggy approval as players, once I know if they are, then I can continue with my Comments.  I have no need to see how good the choppers in Sweden are, I'm sure that if they are in one of your top divisions, then they must be good.  We are talking about something totally differant.  Get the drift.

[big ears]

I think the both guys in the clip are good players

 I thought this was an answer............

[pingpongrob]

I thought this was an answer............

Sorry Wiggy, I missed that - I've just had to install a new Harddrive in My laptop, and have been viewing the Forum on my iPhone - 1000 apologies.

Are they as good as your standard. - Thats what I really meant.  Cause they are certainly better than my standard - about 1 level above me.

[big ears]

Yeah about my level, I have beaten better and lost to worse, If they came over to England now, they would play in the same standard as I do.

[pingpongrob]

Yeah about my level, I have beaten better and lost to worse, If they came over to England now, they would play in the same standard as I do.

Ok, so we already know how you rate my level, how do you rate Supachop, about my level or Yours.

[Silver]

I'm better than all of you.

Combined.

Hah.

As a side note, England looks like they're seeded... 5th in Div 2. Australia looks like they're seeded... 4th in Div 3.

Sweden? 6th in Div 1?

[big ears]

Its pretty difficult to rate supachop, I've only seen him play two players, I would guess he gets good wins because of his style,certain players would struggle to read his pips, and he has a killer f/hand. whether he would be ranked as high as me if he were to play in England regularly is another matter, there are many players of that standard all trying to squeeze into the higher ranking spots, he would definately be in the top 250, definately not higher than 50, In the Vets rankings (separate system) he would be top 50.

 When talking about 'levels of play' Rob I'm talking about national competitions, not local, there is a difference, Local means you get used to playing the same players, National, you very often have a player the other end of the table you have not played before, totally harder.

[pingpongrob]

When talking about 'levels of play' Rob I'm talking about national competitions, not local, there is a difference, Local means you get used to playing the same players, National, you very often have a player the other end of the table you have not played before, totally harder.

Der Wiggy - I didnt come in on the last wave you know.

[speedplay]

I'm better than all of you.

Combined.

Hah.

As a side note, England looks like they're seeded... 5th in Div 2. Australia looks like they're seeded... 4th in Div 3.

Sweden? 6th in Div 1?

I doubt we are seeded, seeing how we haven't made any good results since Waldner and Persson played in the team together.

Rob, the reason I showed the Swedish chopper was because you said that Supachop was one of the best true choppers in Australia, and I know Biggy is of the same level as one of the best choppers in Sweden, that is why I thought it was relevant for you to see this chopper and compare him to Supachop.

[big ears]

Der Wiggy - I didnt come in on the last wave you know.

 So how much competition do you play outside your city?

[pingpongrob]

So how much competition do you play outside your city?

I play all the Veteran Comps around our State, I play high level Veterans from other states when I visit, and usually play our best Veterans when The Australian Veterans Championship is staged.
Every year their is a Comp called the Victorian Country Championships - Supachop has always played in the top division, I used to play in the second division & now have been upgraded to the top division. There are some very good players in this division.  In most league's that I play at, in in the top division and usually hover around the 50-85% mark.  In the Central Comp (this is where Henzell and Gerada play), im usually play in the second Division.  Although I am no where near thier standard.

[Silver]

I doubt we are seeded, seeing how we haven't made any good results since Waldner and Persson played in the team together.

Actually I think everyone's ranked based on last year's performance - then sorted into divisions, then sorted into groups. Groups won't be random... or at least dshoud not be random.

[big ears]

I play all the Veteran Comps around our State, I play high level Veterans from other states when I visit, and usually play our best Veterans when The Australian Veterans Championship is staged.
Every year their is a Comp called the Victorian Country Championships - Supachop has always played in the top division, I used to play in the second division & now have been upgraded to the top division. There are some very good players in this division.  In most league's that I play at, in in the top division and usually hover around the 50-85% mark.  In the Central Comp (this is where Henzell and Gerada play), im usually play in the second Division.  Although I am no where near thier standard.

 Not much then, most of your competitive play is local. Imagine having all of the cities in Australia within 200 miles, times it by ten, and you are getting near to how things are in England. That is just the major cities, there are actually 240 leagues, with 8000 affliated players in an area smaller than your state. Out of these players, I manage to be ranked 99 in the men, and 35 in the Vets. It must mean I am have something, coz i've been there a long time.

[pingpongrob]

Not much then, most of your competitive play is local. Imagine having all of the cities in Australia within 200 miles, times it by ten, and you are getting near to how things are in England. That is just the major cities, there are actually 240 leagues, with 8000 affliated players in an area smaller than your state. Out of these players, I manage to be ranked 99 in the men, and 35 in the Vets. It must mean I am have something, coz i've been there a long time.

It doesnt matter wiggy, cause strewn amonst these players are good players - players that would beat your without a doubt.
Its like saying China has 300,000 players what hope does Timo Boll or Sampsonov have - your thinking is flawed.  Look at Western Australia, hardly a registered player yet one of their players beat you.  What do you think about that.....

And Being that Supachop comes from a city of about 150 players only - he must be worse.  The only time he plays is local comp - where he's been the club champion for numorous years, and our lowly veterans tournaments. 

[big ears]

The player from western Australia that 'beat me' is one of their top players though, the point I'm making is that I hardly virtually never lose to any of the 1000's of players in England that are YOUR standard, if I did I would not be ranked so high, I have to play them all the time. What I mean your standard is that you would be amongst the many players trying to get to the top 200 in the country. Your point about China is wrong, its the strength in depth that makes them so strong, that does not mean that their top players are invincible, just that they have more of them.

[speedplay]

Your point about China is wrong, its the strength in depth that makes them so strong, that does not mean that their top players are invincible, just that they have more of them.

Which is what it all boils down to. Forget about the top players, cause neither one of us are close to them, so lets focus on what's important and that is depth. Biggy who is rated ~100 in UK knows that he would probably not be rated at all if he played in China. Each and every nation can get ~5 good players, but what about the depth after that? In countries with good depth, a player ranked at 100th place might win against a player ranked at 50th place but lose to a player ranked at 150th place, with out any one even lifting an eyebrow, cause this is how close they are to each other in level. So the question is, how many players is there in Australia and U.K that can beat a guy ranked as 100th, with out it being looked up on as a big upset?

Rob, you have mentioned that you like playing against players with Biggy's style and I must ask, from what videos have you judged his style? I've only seen 2 match videos of him play, both against choppers, which makes it really hard to judge his style. Then I've seen a practice video between him and JKC, but correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't even play points in that one, did they? As far as I remember, they only played rallies which shows very little about their style. Lets assume you actually have figured out what style Biggy plays, you might be right on this, I don't know, but if you like this style, don't you think Biggy will notice this and be able to change his game? Cause that is what advanced players do, they force you to play a game that you aren't comfortable with.

Rob, I think you are taking to much personal pride in this, trying to show that you are as good as (or close to) as Biggy by argumentation about it which leads no where. I really wish you guys get to play each other and post a video of it, cause one of you will take a heavy fall Since this is unlikely, how about asking Greg about it? He might be able to shed some light on it, since he should be familiar with your level and be able to make a fair comparison of it.

[pingpongrob]

Rob, you have mentioned that you like playing against players with Biggy's style and I must ask, from what videos have you judged his style? I've only seen 2 match videos of him play, both against choppers, which makes it really hard to judge his style. Then I've seen a practice video between him and JKC, but correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't even play points in that one, did they? As far as I remember, they only played rallies which shows very little about their style. Lets assume you actually have figured out what style Biggy plays, you might be right on this, I don't know, but if you like this style, don't you think Biggy will notice this and be able to change his game? Cause that is what advanced players do, they force you to play a game that you aren't comfortable with.

Rob, I think you are taking to much personal pride in this, trying to show that you are as good as (or close to) as Biggy by argumentation about it which leads no where. I really wish you guys get to play each other and post a video of it, cause one of you will take a heavy fall Since this is unlikely, how about asking Greg about it? He might be able to shed some light on it, since he should be familiar with your level and be able to make a fair comparison of it.

Firstly lets just say that the depth that your fellas are talking about has infact got nothing to do with talent.  For all I know you could have 5000 c grade players making up the depth.  Thats what you are trying to insinuate with my China example. There will always be a stand out amonst those C grade players.

If I have only seen wiggy play in a few vid's, then thats what I'm basing my comments on - How could I base it on anything else.  This is all about dialogue,  It could be that if we met, I would be beaten very badly or could even give wiggy a good match,  this we wont ever know unless wiggy comes down under.

[big ears]

Its all good banter, and I like doing it so there is no harm done. Really I have no interest over who would win between me and Rob or me and Supachop, However, I think Rob is well adrift when He states that he thinks I would get less than 50% in his local 'A' grade pennant, that is why I draw comparisons between Aus and England, If you ask some of the English guys, such as JKC, they will tell you that its extremely hard to get into the English top100 Men, dispite trying for years, JKC has never done it (highest 150 ish) along with many others, I have been in it for years, so either the standard is not very good, or the standard in Robs 'A' grade competition is superb, constantly quoting Henzell to raise the profile means nothing, he is one player, it would be far more accurate to provide a link to the league and let us judge the standard. It seems almost impossible to get the Aus rankings up too, any links?

[speedplay]

Using Henzell to show the quality of the league is kind of funny, as he hasn't lost to a fellow Australian in the last, what, 10 years? So, he is clearly playing in his own level.

What's Greg's rating in the Aussie men's list? Even though he came out on top against Biggy, his other results suggested that he would be rated below Biggy in England, right?

I always enjoy a good bantering, but I don't want things to get out of control as I like to remain friend to all of you guys who are here. Luckily enough, I'm well aware that my own level is below your level, so no need to debate that

Biggy, when was it you would face Baal? Look forward to that as it might shed some more light on the Usatt rating as I feel I got a pretty good grip of your level.

[big ears]

Yes Speedy, I think we've all been around the forms long enough to keep things nicely at the level of friendly banter, thats because we all know each other. A mean average of gregs results would have put him below me yes, i feel if he played long enough in England though, he would establish himself between 80 and 120 in the mens ranking list. Baal is coming to Lincoln on the w/end of 12th June, the same w/end that England play USA in the world cup, I'm thoroughly looking forward to meeting him and playing against him, and we have three days to play/discuss things. I'm gonna remind JKC too, its about a two hour journey for him, but he might come and hopefully bring Fred.

[pingpongrob]

I'm not going to quote anywon here, Of course its all a bit of a banter, And yes we are still all friends and hope that we can stay that way no matter how we percieve each others level.  But there is nothing wrong with thinking I can beat Wiggy (or even Big Ears).  Thats what drives me to improve. If I was to lose, I would not go away with my tail between my legs, I would think about what part of my game needed improvement. What would Wiggy do if he lost.

Now to let the cat out of the bag to speak.  You all have a hard time Judging Supachops level, well let me tell you that Suapchop has beaten one of them - The one the actually won the match in the clip, and lost to the other 11-9 in the 5th, and he's playing a much better game now.  So what do you think about that Wiggy & Speedplay.

[big ears]

I've always said I thought Supachop was a good player, but we've not really seen him tested, and I don't really go for odd results, there is clash of styles and such, but I agree you have to be atleast in the ballpark. As for me losing to you Rob, it just would not happen, so I don't need to worry about it unless you get better. You still seem pretty coy about Aus rankings though.
If I look through the English rankings I have beaten absolutely loads of players above me, but some were on their way up to greater things, some on their way down, you can sometimes lose because you have not played much against someone who is a slightly worse player but is sharp because they have played alot, we all play sharp when we get back from a tournament for instance. Or somethimes get a good win because we are playing well and the other guy is not, but overall its the others around us who decide how good we are. You can't beat self confidence though.

Regarding who beats who, how long ago was it that supachop beat one of those guys, longer than 4 yrs? cos if it was, I gonna bring in my win against current top world 100 player Paul Drinkall as a guide to my standard, that should put me just above Henzell....