Long Pip Defender Versus All round player

[pingpongrob]

Here's another video showing another style of playing a longpips player. Again it was only a friendly betwwen Greggy and I.  I had never played him before and he has never played me.  It was an interesting game, as soon as I backed off (just a touch mind you), he was back in there again.

Can anyone guess the out come.
1st Game Rob
2nd Game Rob
3rd Game Greggy
4th Game = ?

By the way Greggy uses Xiom Yanus (its a smooth rubber made in Germany - 1st or second generation tensor) & Xiom Guilotine long Pips on his backhand.  I believe he's using a Dr Nuebaer Firehand, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm using Hexer+ on my forehand & in this match Roxon 330 on my backhand (Although I'm now using Hexer+ both sides). My blade is a custom finished Yinhe M-6 (Although I have been know to use many blades in the past).

Hope you all enjoy.

Pingpongrob v Greggy Game 2&3

[speedplay]

Rob,

what's with all the pushing??? Greggy is a chopper, not a close to the table blocker, which should give you enough time to loop more often. As it was now, it almost looked like Greggy made more offensive shots then you did. Still, good to beat him, which I assume you did in the fourth set as well, but I was expecting you to play a controlled loop game against him, waiting for the right ball to put it away.

[pingpongrob]

Rob,

what's with all the pushing??? Greggy is a chopper, not a close to the table blocker, which should give you enough time to loop more often. As it was now, it almost looked like Greggy made more offensive shots then you did. Still, good to beat him, which I assume you did in the fourth set as well, but I was expecting you to play a controlled loop game against him, waiting for the right ball to put it away.

I'm a patient person when it comes to playing LP players that I have never played before, and their are a couple of shots I just dont trust myself.
And if you listen carefully you will see that I have a strain of the flu and couldnt breathe properly.  Excuses Excuses Excuses, your right, I should be more positive, but when your forehand loop is not your most consistent shot what do you do.  I ask you this question.

[speedplay]

You did what you should, you adjusted your game to your abilities of the day and won, so nothing wrong there. I just expected you to open up a lot more then you did. Later on in the match, it looked like you grew more confident and attacked more.

Greggy's LP hit impressed me, he managed to get good speed on those and caught both you and Supa with it several times. I think he would be a lot more dangerous if he developed a good inverted fh attack as well, most of the time when the ball came to his fh, even if it was high, he pushed it back.

[supachop]

Greggys LP hit is very good, a real weapon.  Also, his chop is strong. Thats why Rob was pushing alot.

Rob, Remember he hadnt played you before too. Impose your game on him, your going to struggle to beat choppers by pushing.

[pingpongrob]

Greggys LP hit is very good, a real weapon.  Also, his chop is strong. Thats why Rob was pushing alot.

Rob, Remember he hadnt played you before too. Impose your game on him, your going to struggle to beat choppers by pushing.

Call me stupid, but tell me what do most LP defenders do when they are unsure of the spin of a ball on service ?

[supachop]

They do the same as what you would do, try and get the ball on the table.

[pingpongrob]

They do the same as what you would do, try and get the ball on the table.

any other takers

[supachop]

If they are unsure of the spin on the serve,  its up to you to take advantage of that. 

[speedplay]

Depends on what kind of serve, but if it is a long serve, wait for it to drop as much as possible before hitting it, cause by then, most of the spin is gone. The other option is to attack it by implementing a lot of your own spin to over-power the incoming spin with your own spin.

I agree with Supachop, you should try to implement your own game against choppers, cause if you begin to push, you are actually allowing them to control the game and even though it worked out well against Greggy here, it isn't the best way to beat a chopper.

[big ears]

Its all to do with standards, having played in a real match against one of the best defenders in the world at the time, I can tell you that its the depth of return that is the problem against real top quality players, and its constant, no let up, no easier ball closer to the net.

[pingpongrob]

Its all to do with standards, having played in a real match against one of the best defenders in the world at the time, I can tell you that its the depth of return that is the problem against real top quality players, and its constant, no let up, no easier ball closer to the net.

Hey welcome back wiggy - long time no see

[Der Echte]

I played a match against a Korean woman who had an OX LP BH that she used to punch everything fast and deep. made it a pain in the ass to time an attack. I started pushing real deep near endline to her BH pips (her FH was real good. BAD idea to push it there.) to give me more time to see the ball coming. She made a few errors and I was able to atack enough to win, barely. Everyone is different and it can take some time to figure out an opponent.

[big ears]

In the clips, all the big winners are from easy balls, mid table, no spin, egg and milk for someone who reads pips. I have not posted, because I just get tired of these 'how good are you' clips, its extremely difficult to acertain on clips how good a player is, I pesonlally think I would beat easily everyone who has played on Rob's clips, but I can't prove it, so what is the point.? We can just speculate for ever. I know my standard in England, it gets the respect that I'm happy with, respect is everything as far as TT is concerned, If you get it, you are happy.
 Supachop looks good quality to me, but I might blow him away...... how do we know? IMO I would, looking at his game play, but that is just my opinion based upon clips over the internet, I also looked at Greg Letts over the internet, and honestly underrrated him.

[Der Echte]

Even a U.N. funded international, inter-TT Forum tourney wouldn't prove everything, maybe a long series of them would, though. Fat chance of that happening. I kinda share/understand Wiggy's attitude, but I think it is so much fun (and usefullness as it sparks discussion/advice giving you wouldn't get anywhere else) to post vids and talk about them.

[pingpongrob]

Supachop looks good quality to me, but I might blow him away...... how do we know? IMO I would, looking at his game play, but that is just my opinion based upon clips over the internet, I also looked at Greg Letts over the internet, and honestly underrrated him.

You under rated Greg Letts, yet Supachop is equally as good as Greg.

its extremely difficult to acertain on clips how good a player is, I pesonlally think I would beat easily everyone who has played on Rob's clips, but I can't prove it, so what is the point.?

The Clips that I have seen you play wiggy, I would say that we would have an interesting match especially if you think I'm an easy beat.  remember its your style that I enjoy playing and excel at - but then again these are just clips - its to hard to tell how good a player is from the clips alone.

I have not posted, because I just get tired of these 'how good are you' clips

Does every clip have to be about "how good are you", maybe the clips were posted just to actually see what both Greggy and I played like, Maybe they were posted to show another style of play - who know & who cares, its all about meeting people and having some fun playing the best sport in the world.

[speedplay]

Clips are what we make them to be. I would hazard a guess that Biggy is the best player amongst are members, or active members at least. No disrespect to Rob or Supa, but Biggy's game looks more advanced and he plays higher % shots along with a better short game.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Has Greggy been over for the Vets International up in Hurstville or something Rob? Was great to see Case become World O70's champion from that. 

[pingpongrob]

Clips are what we make them to be. I would hazard a guess that Biggy is the best player amongst are members, or active members at least. No disrespect to Rob or Supa, but Biggy's game looks more advanced and he plays higher % shots along with a better short game.

Please show me how you come to this conclusion.
I deliberately serve long to recieve a long return. Thats what my game is based upon.  I played the No.1 ranked player in Australia in the short game and beat him (only that game).
These vids can show what you want.  If I took a video of me playing an at the table blocker at my local club, you would be shocked at the differance.

[big ears]

BTW, Baal is coming to my town for a w/end practice on 10th June, I think he's USATT 2200 ish so I'll report on our sessions.
Back on subject, i just think that things are so different between England and Aus structurally, we have far more interactions between towns and there are far more national competitions, but in my own town (Lincoln) I have won 100% of my matches since 1997, that would suggest that the standard is really low? There are three divisions of 10 teams and plenty of good players. I win because my short/service game and peripheral awareness are too good for the locals, they are too good because I played three yrs at the Top national level, that would be the same as taking the AUS top 20 and doubling it to 40 players of top 20 standard putting them in teams and them all playing every two weeks in a league. There are no passengers, if you are not good enough, you don't get in a team.

[speedplay]

Rob,

I'm sorry to say that I can't be bothered to find every video and identify the exact shots, but having watched some of Biggy's videos and having watched yours and Supaschop's videos, to me, it looks like Biggy have more control in his game, with fewer own mistakes. I don't think he hits harder/faster then your our Supachop does, but he makes less mistakes.

As an example, look at the video in this tread, unless the video angle is completely wrong, a lot of your pushes against Greggy are really high. Compare this to Biggy's big moment video where he play's Syed, who I would rate higher then Greggy (No offense to Greggy here) and watch his pushes. Even against such a skilled opponent, Wiggy is able to keep his pushes lower. Also, Wiggy opens up more and uses a controlled kind of loop against chop's and given the level of Syed, this is pretty impressing according to me.

Another thing is, some of Wiggy's opponents play he in Sweden as well and given his results aginst them and their results here, I think it would place Wiggy in division 1 here, with an even record, which I must say I doubt that you or Supa would get even close to.

This is not to bash either one of you, this is only my view and what I've been able to read out from the video's I've seen and the information I've gathered. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of the level of your opponents as I have no relevant comparison to players who I'm familiar with.

[pingpongrob]

Rob,

I'm sorry to say that I can't be bothered to find every video and identify the exact shots, but having watched some of Biggy's videos and having watched yours and Supaschop's videos, to me, it looks like Biggy have more control in his game, with fewer own mistakes. I don't think he hits harder/faster then your our Supachop does, but he makes less mistakes.

As an example, look at the video in this tread, unless the video angle is completely wrong, a lot of your pushes against Greggy are really high. Compare this to Biggy's big moment video where he play's Syed, who I would rate higher then Greggy (No offense to Greggy here) and watch his pushes. Even against such a skilled opponent, Wiggy is able to keep his pushes lower. Also, Wiggy opens up more and uses a controlled kind of loop against chop's and given the level of Syed, this is pretty impressing according to me.

Another thing is, some of Wiggy's opponents play he in Sweden as well and given his results aginst them and their results here, I think it would place Wiggy in division 1 here, with an even record, which I must say I doubt that you or Supa would get even close to.

This is not to bash either one of you, this is only my view and what I've been able to read out from the video's I've seen and the information I've gathered. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of the level of your opponents as I have no relevant comparison to players who I'm familiar with.

Well if you say that Wiggy would play in Division 1 in Sweden, then I'm impressed.  But why did he lose to Greg Letts.

[big ears]

He diden't lose to Greg Letts, he played Greg In Practice, as far as I know, that does not count for much. You may also think its an excuse Rob, which is fine by me, but after using Sp/glue for 20 yrs I was really struggling at that point to confidently attack. Although you make a comparison between Greg and supachop, Greg has been AUS top 10 if I'm not mistaken, has supachop? Where are you and Supachop both ranked in Aus Men?
 really, comparisons of TT players standards go further than head to head results

if player 'a' beats player 'b' player 'a' is assumed to be the better player, but more realistically, if player 'a' plays 20 players and wins 5, but player 'b' plays the same 20 players and wins 15, who would you say is the better player 'a' or 'b'?
Another little link between Aus and England, the guy in Red in this clip is from England, he was ranked about 60 in England before he left, became an instant top 10 player in Aus. I never played him, but at the time was ranked higher....

2007 Table Tennis West Australian State Open Mens Final

[speedplay]

Well if you say that Wiggy would play in Division 1 in Sweden, then I'm impressed.  But why did he lose to Greg Letts.

First, division 1 in Sweden isn'r out top division, but in fact our third highest division. A guy who Biggy have played against plays in this division and have made really good results this year. If I'm not mistaken, Biggy told me he lost to him last time around, but have beaten him in the past, so I think it would be fair to assume that Biggy could play in this division with a decent result.

Why he lost to Greg? Well, Greg is a great player. I love Biggy, that's no secret, but he knows I don't buy the crap about facing him in practice, they played against each other and Biggy lost more sets then he won, 3-7 or something like that. To me, this shows that they are playing at roughly the same level, on a different day, the numbers might have been in Biggy's favour instead, or as he says him self, if they both were facing the same opponents, Biggy might have a better result. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Greg play a couple of tournaments in the UK, with less impressing results, losing to several players rated below Biggy?

Not trying to downgrade you or Supachop as you both are advanced players, but I still maintain that Biggy is a level above you.

Biggy, would love to see some video of you vs Baal! My guess is that you will win rather easy, cause I've lost a lot of the respect I used to have for the Usatt rating. I used to think 2000 was advanced, but I have changed my mind about this.

[pingpongrob]

Not trying to downgrade you or Supachop as you both are advanced players, but I still maintain that Biggy is a level above you.

Ok lets cut the Crap, Supachop is clearly a level above me, He rarely loses matches (Rarely) would have played in our Supaleague (thats right, the one where William Played), and he probably would have been 50%. So clearly what you see when he plays me is not a true reflection of his level.  There are days where I would not get a single game against him  .  There is only one player that supachop loses consistently to, and thats Brian in the Clips I have shown previously.  Other than that Supachop is one of the best true choppers in Australia.

Now the Video that youtube clip that Wiggy posted is clearly a great match, and both players line up against one another quite well.  Having said this, how come this so called top 10 has not been crowned Australian Vets Champion.

And this does not change the fact that wiggy's strokes (Currently) do not look like he would win more than 50% of his matches in our top League.

Wig's you say you have not lost a match in your league for many years now.  Where are all the Juniors,  How come their are none knocking on your door.  I know in my local league I was undefetead for a couple of seasons, but then some of the Juniors got better and now I'm level with them. When I say juniors, I dont mean 10 year olds - I mean 18 & 19 years olds.

Even if Wiggy is a class above me, and thats probably because he's got more experience when playing differant styles, I know that from the Video clips I've seen of him playing, I would be a good chance of taking the match - his style suits me, and I now have 2 working knee's to help me move around.

[blue_smartie68]

Great clip Wiggy... thanks for posting, I enjoyed watching that 

[supachop]

Wiggy,  When was Jeff Drew top 10 in Australia?
How do you rate him and the guy he played in that clip. Craig Cambell?

Rob,  Jeff Drew has won an Australian O40 singles title.

[big ears]

Well, when Jeff left England some years ago, he did go into the Aus top 10, I rate both those players as about my standard. Jeff was English top 70 standard, I honestly believe that these rankings are skewed if you don't have the depth, something we have in abundance in England, so if you have 500 players of the same standard, they still have to fall in to a ranking order, makes things difficult, but in our system, we all play each other alot, so its pretty accurate, nevertheless, you can have really good players ranked as low as 500. The situation in AUS is different as I know from players who are either from there or have visited, the standard drops off quite rapidly after 50 (mens)
so whilst you may have 50 aus men in your top 50, we have probably 500 players the same standard, yet by the nature of rankings, only 50 can be rated as 'top 50' the others have to fall into position. If Jeff Drew was top 50 in England, he was pretty good.
I also played for a few yrs with Martin Rodgers, an ex Aus u21 champ, he was top 10 in Aus but came out at about 50 in England.

[speedplay]

  Other than that Supachop is one of the best true choppers in Australia.

The best chopper in Sweden plays in Superettan, which is one division above div 1 that I suggested for Wiggy. He is Chinese and he is really skilled. The best Swedish chopper* played div 1 last season, but his team got promoted to Superettan this season. So unless you think Australia have better choppers then Sweden, I maintain that the facts show that Biggy is the favourite amongst the 3 of you. Would I bet money on him? I might. Would I bet my house on it? No way, I'm not that sure.

* Who plays in Sweden. He can be seen here:

http://www.pingistv.se/ShowMedia.aspx?id=c638e03b-a897-4e83-ba96-4f3bd657c087

Roughly 34 minutes in to the clip. Feel free to compare him to Supachop. He played the last season in div 1, same division as Marsden, who Biggy have meet and is close to in level. Marsden made better results then the chopper did.

[big ears]

Rob, you question why no Juniors in my city have beaten me, the truth is that non of them have been good enough, thats not to say they are crap, but in context only 5 yrs ago I beat the European no1 u15 (no7 u18) in real competition. I also take issue at your insitance that I'm a blocker, I'm topspin mad on both wings, if anything slightly stronger on the b/hand, which is basically why I manage to stay competitive in a good standard, I play off the table and re-loop both wings.
 I also don't know how you can say my strokes don't (currently) look like they would get 50% in your league, My strokes were grooved years ago and have not changed, more importantly, only a part of a players make up is his strokes, the bit that makes him a higher level player, is the bit that speedy can spot, You can have the most powerful F/hand loop drive, but its no good if you can't get it in, unfortunately, this is the part most players see, the final part of a rally, you need to concentrate more on things such as footwork, recovery, touch and service tightness, when looking at a players standard.

I've Found another example of the depth of standard in England, there is another ex Aus player, Jim Stamas (Jim The Greek) he was highly rated in Aus, he's a good player, but he's only ranked 479 in the English mens list, and 203 in the Vets, that's because the depth of standard is high, we've got far more cities and a higher population. I've been a constant in the top 100 for 15 yrs, and no1 in my county. My county has 7 leagues in different towns, each league has 4/5 divisions, so when I'm talking about being county no1, I'm no1 out of about 500 players.
The players speedplay is talking about who play in Sweden are here;

Bristol UWE Open Butterfly Grand Prix Final Game 3

I player Rumgay last year and had game point to go to 2-2 and bring a final game, I have infact beaten both these players,though not recently.