4 - 8 down in the 5th Set

[pingpongrob]

Now this has been discussed down at MyTT, and I did find some of the answers quite amusing.
The way I see it, if its 2 games all and your down in the 5th set, 2-8, then only a miricle can help you. If you do manage to get up, then all I can say buy a lottery ticket, or you oppenant had a complete brain lapse.

When I go into the 5th set, I know its do or die, no more mucking around - when the going gets tough, the tough get going. I make sure that every stroke of every point counts 100%. Nothing is left to chance. I scrounge for every point as if its my last point.

I know that some players choke (I used to), but as you get to a better level this choking completely disappears.

Can you recall any other great moments in sport where the leader has choked and lost the match.

[speedplay]

I don't care what the score is, even if it is 0-10, I keep on fighting, trying to play my game and do what ever I can to win.

I don't change my game much in the fifth, because if my game have been good enough to get me to the fifth, why change it? Some minor changes might work, but some people seem to either risk it all or play to cautious in the fifth set.

Now, about choking disappearing at a higher level, I seriously doubt this. I've seen Wang Liqin drop 10-2 to 10-12 vs Chen Weixing and that is a choke and I doubt the level can get much higher. I don't think choking is about level at all, it is about your mindset and some people have it, other's don't.

I recently lost a set where I was up 9-3 partly due to the classic mistake, I begun to think about the next set, partly because my opponent played some great points. Was I choking? Not really, cause I continued to play my game, but he managed to raise his game a level, but of course, losing focus on what is going on is never a good thing.

If we are allowed to get examples outside of TT, Sweden have made some classical comebacks against Finland in Ice-hockey. 2 times, we have been down by 2 goals with less then a minute left to play but managed to fight it back to a draw and one time, we were trailing 1-5 in the middle of the second period but ended up winning the match, 6-5.

[pingpongrob]

I don't change my game much in the fifth, because if my game have been good enough to get me to the fifth, why change it? Some minor changes might work, but some people seem to either risk it all or play to cautious in the fifth set.

Well you oppenent must have changed something, otherwise he wouldn't have been 8-4 infront, isnt it these small changes in our game that cane make a huge differance.

some people seem to either risk it all or play to cautious in the fifth set.

Yes some do go out of their way to play like a gun. Me myself I tend to get a bet causious, use my tight defensive game and weasal my way back into the game (although it didnt show last week).

Now, about choking disappearing at a higher level, I seriously doubt this. I've seen Wang Liqin drop 10-2 to 10-12 vs Chen Weixing and that is a choke and I doubt the level can get much higher.

Do you think that Wang might have had a lapse in his concentration, or Wang thought he might try a few new combo's, that didnt work out - which ultimetly let Chen back into the game. I dont care what anyone says - Chen can be a very dangourous player on his day.

I recently lost a set where I was up 9-3 partly due to the classic mistake, I begun to think about the next set, partly because my opponent played some great points. Was I choking? Not really, cause I continued to play my game, but he managed to raise his game a level, but of course, losing focus on what is going on is never a good thing.

I call this a big fat CHOKE - yes a classic mistake, but nevertheless a CHOKE, maybe you should change your vote.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I think I'm probably on the losing end of 5 setters more than I am on the winning end. I won a 5 setter last week after I came back from being 10-5 down in the third set to take a 2-1 lead. Lost the 4th and then won the 5th narrowly 12-10 (and I think I was 10-7 down). Very unlike me to do this though. Maybe I am learning to choke less LOL. Although I went on to lose my last match in a 5 setter losing last 3 games 12-10 (or maybe I won one of them 12-10 can't remember, but I don't think I was 2-0 up). I've been having shoulder probs though and shoulder had got so sore and tired by this stage I had no kill power. All sorts of things can be classified as a choke, just depends on how mean or generous the classifier is being LOL.

[speedplay]

Rob, note that I said yes to minor changes, as this minor changes is what can give us the advantage, how ever, changing your game altogether in the deciding set is, according to me, a sure way to lose.

Now, as for my own "choke" I don't consider it to be a choke, because the way I see it, choking is when I start playing bad when I see the opportunity to win and this wasn't the case here. My opponent simple played better then he did before, landing all of his loops and prevented me from attacking. It is of course a disappointment to lose from 9-3 and looking back, I wish I had risked more, but my game plan is to wear out my opponent and this didn't work here as his loops were more consistent then my chops.

As for Chen vs Wang, the video is out on youtube somewhere and when Wang reaches 10, he starts to go for winners to soon in each rally, with out showing the patience he did when he got to 10-2 and this is why he lost it in the end. Eventually, I think Wang went on to win the match despite dropping this set.

[pingpongrob]

Rob, note that I said yes to minor changes, as this minor changes is what can give us the advantage, how ever, changing your game altogether in the deciding set is, according to me, a sure way to lose.

Now, as for my own "choke" I don't consider it to be a choke, because the way I see it, choking is when I start playing bad when I see the opportunity to win and this wasn't the case here. My opponent simple played better then he did before, landing all of his loops and prevented me from attacking. It is of course a disappointment to lose from 9-3 and looking back, I wish I had risked more, but my game plan is to wear out my opponent and this didn't work here as his loops were more consistent then my chops.

As for Chen vs Wang, the video is out on youtube somewhere and when Wang reaches 10, he starts to go for winners to soon in each rally, with out showing the patience he did when he got to 10-2 and this is why he lost it in the end. Eventually, I think Wang went on to win the match despite dropping this set.

Chill - just trying to fire you up my old friend.

[cyber1call]

With Speedplay mentioning hockey and now with the Olympics going on, I'd propose that the #1 greatest choke of all time was when the Soviet hockey team lost to the US in the 1980 Olympic semi-final. I saw an hour long recap of that game this weekend and even from an American perspective it was almost painful to watch if you take the time to look at how panicked the Soviet team got as early as the end of the first period when they pulled the best goalie in the world out of the net because the game was tied 2-2. The Soviets were a professional team that would have likely been good enough to win the Stanley Cup if they had played in the NHL. The US team was a bunch of university players who had only played about 60 games together and had been slaughtered by the Soviets 10-3 only a few weeks earlier in an exhibition game.

 

[speedplay]

If so, then Dream Teams failure to bring home the Olympic gold should also be considered a choke.

How ever, a choke, according to me, isn't when the favourite loses the match, but rather when a big lead is lost.

Rob, I'm calm, just wanted to point out why I didn't feel that losing from 9-3 up to be a choke.

[pingpongrob]

Rob, I'm calm, just wanted to point out why I didn't feel that losing from 9-3 up to be a choke.

Last night played Supachop - he was 10-2 up in one of the games, yet I beat him 12-10, now what do you call that.

1. Choke
2. Mucking around
3. Bit of both.

[speedplay]

Depends on why he dropped the lead.
1: Was it due to him being hesitant about his strokes? (Highly unlikely, from what I've seen, besides he is used to beat you, so he shouldn't be nervous about it)

2: Was it due to you playing great for these points? (also highly unlikely, I've seen your game )

3: Was it because Supachop knows he have to lose some against you every now and then to keep his special discount at the shop? (Sounds very likely according to me)

So, not a choke, but a tactical loss made for financial benefits

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I'd guess mucking around! How did you win the bulk of the points Rob? Supachop missing smashes? You getting edges?

Games where there is nothing at stake can simply be a loss of focus if its one game in amongst 20 or 30.

[pingpongrob]

I'd guess mucking around! How did you win the bulk of the points Rob? Supachop missing smashes? You getting edges?

Games where there is nothing at stake can simply be a loss of focus if its one game in amongst 20 or 30.

Your right nothing was at stake - we dont play for Sheep Stations.
I did win the bulk of the games - Since my knee reco I have been playing exceptionally good. Although sometimes I do let my guard down 

[gekogark1212]

I'm a complete choker. But not 8-2 in 5th and lose type, more like 10-7 and become too defensive.

[Tenergy]

I once played a beginner and i won 3-0. The first game i have him a 6 point headstart, the second game an 8 point headstart, and the third game a 9-0 headstart.

[speedplay]

When this was discussed at Mytt, I know Biggie promised he had a solution for situations like this, but I don't remember ever reading it, so perhaps he could be so kind to share it here as well?

As far as comebacks goes, I was playing against a player who I had lost against 3 times before, 0-3, 0-3, 1-3, but this time I managed to get ahead and actually was in front, 2-1 when he whitewashed me. Yes, he handed me an 11-0 whopping! Guess what? I managed to pull my self together after that whopping and won the fifth set 11-6 or something like that. How is that for a comeback? To be honest, if he had given me a point when he was up 10-0, I would probably not have been able to find the spirit to fight back, but since he decided to go for the 11-0, I got fired up, so I probably should be grateful to him for doing this.