Reason to use anything else but inverted?

[speedplay]

I know, this is the place where most members use inverted, so I haven't posted this in the wrong forum

I just want to know your opinion on this, why do you think players pick pips or anti for their game? Is it to improve their own level of control, or is it to mess with the opponent? Obviously, you get both, but I do believe their is one main reason for making the switch.

Also, do you believe there is a right and a wrong reason to pick anti/pips?

[blue_smartie68]

I reckon it's a personality type.
Pips players are the same people who pull a chair away from you when you are about to sit down and have a good ol' chuckle when you hit the floor!!! It's a sadistic streak 
Nah...seriously, I think its a progression for some older players as they lose the body mobility for fast inverted play. As for others...I'm not sure, maybe influences from their younger days?..
 

[Der Echte]

Everyone should be able to play with the authorized equipment of their choice. I am double inverted attacker. I had a year or so of playing against some LP players near my level. That helped me out a lot. Now that I have further developed my attacking game, I appreciate it more. A lot of the women in our clup (the OLD ones) use LP. I have not been troubled by them. Two of these players are a level above me.

[Der Echte]

I hope ITTF keeps the diversity that is around in equipment and styles. I hope they don't chop it down further.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I started using pips cos I thought they would suit my game style I had with dual inverted and never looked back, finding more and more reasons to love my pips. As sure as inverted is not inverted, pips are not pips either. And it takes time to learn the nuances of different pips (as it would with anti's) and how they react and can be used. Finding a blade to work well with them, an inverted that compliments them, and improving/inventing your own techniques with them. Its all part of the fun (and often frustration, but without frustration we would not know fun) of TT as far as I'm concerned.

[Peter C]

Messing up the opponents rhythm is the main reason I would say, although some do change to gain some control, over a poor backhand.

Personally I prefer to use inverted on both wings, as I found using Anti and long pips restricts my options, too much for my liking.

[big ears]

I think that there are a few different reasons, often goverened by varying standards. At lower levels some players find that they enjoy success mixing spin against players who are not accomplished at reading it, and also like to play a slower tempo of TT. At higher levels, players work their variant rubbers into their games until woven seamlessly into a tight system of play.
The difference between the two is often easy to spot, the lower level player will play every ball with his pips/anti that he possibly can, whereas players with a higher level of technique use variant rubbers to break/ slow the game, in order to buy time to get their big winning strokes in.

[speedplay]

Have to agree with Biggy, even if I have noticed that there are 3 different reason for people to change to anti/LP.

Category 1, beginners who struggle to read their opponents spin, they get this to "solve" their problems, so they feel they gain control with them. Sure, this will work up to a certain level, but if you want to improve beyond that, you really need to understand spin when you use anti/LP.

Category 2, those who do understand spin, but want to mess it up for their opponents. Works up to a reasonable level, but the higher you go, the more work is required to mess up your opponent. That is why so few players at the top used Neubauers pips, while at the lower levels, these pips where tha bomb! Not a self playing piano, cause it did require some skill to use them,, but the rubber did all the work when it came down to messing with the opponent.

Category 3, people who base their game on getting one shot more back on the table then their opponent, this is what it is all about at the top level. Pips (not anti, cause no one use that at the top level) are used to help players control the speed and spin from their opponents. Obviously, there are players at lower levels who hve begun to use pips/anti for the very same reason as the pro's.

As much as I hate to admit it, when I first looked into LP's, it was because I struggled a lot with service returns, not because I had a weak bh.

Also, I used Neubauer Super Block, and that is why I know that it wasn't effortless to play with, but I have to be honest, there was no deception with this rubber and when ever people failed to return my blocks, it was because of the effect the rubber provided, not what I did with it. A minor exception here, placement obviously worked in my favour here, but with out the effect from the rubber, well, then the opponents wouldn't struggle as much to get it back.

Hopefully, I'm now in category 3, as I've learned to receive serve with inverted and do this at times to create greater variation. I've also changed to anti, with a soft sponge, so I can manipulate the spin and actually control what effect I will feed the opponent with. I'm no longer trying to use material to win me points, I'm using it to set up my inverted, or, to make sure I'm able to return my opponents loops with good control.

Now, this is how I see it, and I do believe that players in category 1 and 2 are the reason we have such bad rumour.

[pingpongrob]

Category 3, people who base their game on getting one shot more back on the table then their opponent, this is what it is all about at the top level. Pips (not anti, cause no one use that at the top level) are used to help players control the speed and spin from their opponents. Obviously, there are players at lower levels who hve begun to use pips/anti for the very same reason as the pro's.

I agree with 1 & 2, but I'm not convinced with catorgary 3. Cant see how using long pips will help them get one more shot back. Remember that Long Pips are just as hard to use as Smooth - if not harder.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

The whole aim of TT is to get one more shot back than the opponent, no matter what kind of rubber is on the blade. I think the reason to use pips or anti comes down to style, comfort, or perhaps experimentation. Having used pips for some time now, I find inverted on my BH hard to control (except for serving) cos the power dynamic and blade angles are so different. Equally I don't like using pips on my FH. This is where the comfort factor fits in. Of course it can move on to experimentation to reset what is comfortable, but unless its not working, I don't believe in fixing it LOL.

[speedplay]

I agree with 1 & 2, but I'm not convinced with catorgary 3. Cant see how using long pips will help them get one more shot back. Remember that Long Pips are just as hard to use as Smooth - if not harder.

Depends on what your aim is, if you are trying to find a safe way to return a good loop, then a chop with LP is a lot easier to perform then a chop with inverted. I also believe that a defensive shot is easier to perform then an offensive shot and that is why I said that their objective was to get one more ball back on the table.

Reb, obviously we all try to do this, but as a defender we might not aim to blast it past our opponent, we might be quite happy by landing our own shots and watch the attacker struggle to get it back on.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Reb, obviously we all try to do this, but as a defender we might not aim to blast it past our opponent, we might be quite happy by landing our own shots and watch the attacker struggle to get it back on.

Absolutely!


I enjoy blasting past, but more often I think it ends up being your scenario that wins the point (in my case anyway).

[cyber1call]

Category 1, beginners who struggle to read their opponents spin, they get this to "solve" their problems, so they feel they gain control with them. Sure, this will work up to a certain level, but if you want to improve beyond that, you really need to understand spin when you use anti/LP.

I have to admit that as a beginner using LPs seemed to be the solution to handling spin. As I've progressed under a good coach I've come to learn that opponents are not going to just stand there befuddled by my mastery of spin reversal. 
 
At some point I need to actually win points and for me it seems that I've progressed to a point where I need inverted on both sides to be competitive.
 
 
 
 

[speedplay]

Cyber1call, nice to have you here as well!

I know how you feel about double inverted, I've felt that my self from time to time but I'm still using anti. It is all about finding new ways to win the point, when purely reversal wont give you points, then use spin variation to win points or set up points for your inverted. When this fails, twiddle the blade and last, but not least, work on consistency, cause in the end, you don't have to hit winners, just prevent your opponent from doing it long enough and you will win.

[pingpongrob]

We need Supachops response to this topic, he uses pimpled rubbers better than anyone I know, and his Backhand with Smooth Rubber has improved out of sight in the last 6 months, having said that - I believe that the pimpled rubber gives him a huge advantage, in slowing the ball down, thus giving him more time to plan his forehand attack.

It is true though that at the very top level there are few by numbers of these pimpled players.