is this really 2200 - 2400 US Level

[big ears]

Biggy or JKC, you guys seems to be better then me at judging the skill of players, so where would a 2200 Usatt rating place a player in U.K?

http://www.usatt.org/history/rating/History/
 
http://www.englishtabletennis.org.uk/dyncat.cfm?catid=27044
 
I would say that this guy has maintained the same standard over the last 10 yrs, The ETTA list is not personalised, so you have to scroll down to 202 in the men to see  S. Mcintyre. USATT is a different system really, based on ratings rather than rankings, in US, a player quotes his rating as a guide to his standard, whereas in UK a player quotes his ranking, this is easy because the majority of ETTA players only play in their local leagues and are not part of the ranking system, whereas the USATT system incorporates all players in competitive play. In England alone, there are many quality players who do not appear on the ranking list because they are removed after 6 months on inactivity (although they may still be playing local stuff) In USA they stay in the Ratings permanently, so the numbers of players on similar points is huge, and an accurate ranking can only be achieved when the top of the pyramid is listed.
The further down the ETTA list you go, the less accurate it is as a guide to a players standard, untill below 500 its an open field.
Then there are literally 10,000 players who play competitively in Local league who are not ranked, not because they are not good enough, but because they have not entered an ETTA rating event. Most are lower standard players, but not all, there are probably 100 players 'not active' who are top 200 standard and would easily achieve that status within 6 months of playing the ratings circuit. From what I understand from English players who have been over to USA, ETTA top 100 players, easily make the grade of USA top 100 players.

[speedplay]

Thanks for the info Biggy I see the problem in comparing standards with different systems and not all players being in the system. I must admit, like Rob, I first thought of 2000+ level as really high level, but the more I learn about the system, the more I realise that 2000 level is equal to a good club player here, but not a player for the national leagues, not even close.

Der_Echte, don't lump us regular defenders in along with the LP blockers! Even if we both win most points from our opponents errors, we are at least spectacular to watch and we are trying to force an error from our opponents, while the LP blockers are simply waiting for it to happen.

[Honey]

Not that I'm trying to close the topic, but to answer the question, have we all agreed that this is not actually a good representation of 2200-2400 level?

To me, this is more what I imagined 2000 level to be. This guy is not an accomplished player, and probably won't improve much beyond the level he already is. No disrespect to the guy of course!

[speedplay]

Not that I'm trying to close the topic, but to answer the question, have we all agreed that this is not actually a good representation of 2200-2400 level?

Well, he is above 2200, even if it only is by 7 points right now, so we know that players at this level struggle to face this style.

Is it beautiful? No.

Does he show the commonly accepted signs of a skilled player? No.

Does he beat players who looks like they are better then him? Yes.

So, I think he is a good representation of the 2200 level. Which brings me to believe, the 2200 level is not as good as I thought it was, but I suppose it is still a higher level then the level I play at.

[pingpongrob]

Which brings me to believe, the 2200 level is not as good as I thought it was

Exactly My Point.

[blue_smartie68]

Ok...I agree with Honey. Regardless of the fact that he has a rating of 2207, I do not think he is a good represention of that level!
 
Speedy....yes, you are right.  It is not beautiful to watch and no, he does not show accepted signs of a skilled player of that ranking..... but he does beat players who look better than him... hence his ranking.
However, this leads me to conclude that his style is not representative of the level he is at. A representative style would be one that is most common, an inverted attacker from what Der has said.
Really, (no disrespect of course) he is an anomaly at his level...  When one does a statistical analysis in the science world, the high and low extreme values are discarded to get a more accurate representation of the study. This guy should be left out of a study into the class of 2200-2400 players!
 
Another thing that has intruiged me.... why did the range 2200-2400 get mentioned in the first place? I don't go around saying that I'm in the 25-45 year age bracket when I'm 45 
 
So, my conclusions....
1/ The title should have been "Is this guy really US 2200 level?" To which the answer is undeniably, Yes.
2/ We cannot judge the US 2200 level from this guy as he is not an accurate representative of the level..... he just happens to be able to slot in with his irregular style.
 
Cheers,
Chris
 

[speedplay]

The reason the tread is labelled 2200-2400 is probably because he has labelled the video something like that himself.

I agree that he is not the stereotype of a 2200 player, but fact remains, he is a 2200 player and that is why I think he is representative for the level. Obviously, two loopers in the same level would put on a more impressive show, but to judge a level, we need to see more then one type of game being played.

[big ears]

2200-2400 will have come from the fact that he IS 2200, but to get there he will have beaten players up to 2400, so considers himself to be roughly at that level. Last week I beat a UK top 30 guy, but my ranking is nearer 100, I don't claim to be 'top 30' though, which is what this guy is doing. A genuine 2400 player will be beating players above his rating some of the time (and losing to some below)

[speedplay]

To be fair to Pushblocker, I haven't seen him claim it is a 2200-2400 rated player against Schlager. The youtube clearly states his rating to be 2207 and nothing else. The 2200-2400 is probably from the Mytt poster who posted a link to the video.

Pushblocker is not a guy who tries to brag and pretend to be something he isn't, at least not according to my experience of him.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

So the bald guy in the vid is Pushblocker? He is the guy who "fiddles' with his pips and sells them as well, am I correct? So would he be using treated pips in the vid? Or am I totally off the mark?

[speedplay]

You are right that it is indeed Pushblocker who plays against Schlager. Turns out they are old friends, used to live neighbours or something like that.

Don't know anything about Pushblocker selling treated pips, but he does seem to know how to treat them, so it could very well be true. If he uses them for competition, I honestly don't know, but I certainly hope he isn't.

Now, this was obviously not a competitive match, so he might have used treated pips here, but I do think he used his real match set-up, which hopefully isn't treated.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Thanks for the clarification Speedplay. He has said quite openly in LP threads on OOAK at times that he sells treated pips (on German ebay I think) I'm sure. Nothing illegal about doing so of course. I wouldn't go as far as saying he uses them in comp as I can't recall him ever saying that, and as you I would hope not also.

[speedplay]

Now that you mention it, I think I've seen something about him selling treated stuff. As you say though, nothing illegal with that.

Those who frequent Mytt have probably already seen this video, but for the rest of you, here it is, estimated to be 2200 USATT so far, but my guess is, these guys are better then 2200 USATT, but that is only my guess.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMGZrLKzgz8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMGZrLKzgz8</a>

Btw, is it just me, or is the umpire to close for comfort? Heck, a drop shot to that side of the table would be almost impossible to reach because of the ump! Also, I do believe it was the final that was estimated to be 2100-2200 level.

[big ears]

Those guys look to be about the level of British league div1, the same league as myself and JKC play in.

[sunflex]

Scott(1rst division is equally good as Timothy Wang who played here in Holland 1rst division  last season. his rating is 2451.Timothy only lost 2 matches in the 1rst division(against my old practice partner). Rob van Lier who was a good 2nd division player here has a rating of 2397 and was 2430 or something before. Schmidt who has a rating of 2468 would also be a good 2nd division player although he plays in the 3rd division. You see usatt ratings are not very accurate.

[pingpongrob]

How about we find a 2200 - 2400 USA player thats not a blocker, and then we can decide the standard, The fella's in the above clip are definetely Section 1 Standard in our main Comp, you can tell by the strokes that they have had some coaching. and can read the spin of the ball extremely well.

[pingpongrob]

Scott(1rst division is equally good as Timothy Wang who played here in Holland 1rst division  last season. his rating is 2451.Timothy only lost 2 matches in the 1rst division(against my old practice partner). Rob van Lier who was a good 2nd division player here has a rating of 2397 and was 2430 or something before. Schmidt who has a rating of 2468 would also be a good 2nd division player although he plays in the 3rd division. You see usatt ratings are not very accurate.

Am I seeing things, Does John Scott have a limpy style when he plays. He seems very relaxed, but talented in his strokes.

[JKC]

He likes his faded forehand.

[sunflex]

He likes his faded forehand.

jup it's his trademark shot, lots of players from his club copy it.

[big ears]

Pushblocker is not a guy who tries to brag and pretend to be something he isn't, at least not according to my experience of him.

 Yes, I've just read his 'I want to take my game to the next level' thread on OOAK, he is modest and level headed, sounds like a realistic guy to me, so I take it all back.