Look what I found attacker vs defender

[sunflex]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrTDN58s6qQ&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrTDN58s6qQ&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>

this is a video of two dutch players.

[JKC]

When he gets it right, the defender has one of those nasty slow hanging chops which he gets quite close to the edge. These types of players can be very awkward if they can vary the spin and consistently find the end of the table. He tends to stick quite a few shorter ones in too though which allows his opponent to get on top later in the game. The defender covers quite a lot of distance, but to me he often finished 1/2 a stride off where he needs to be when moving to balls at either side. This little reach at the end means he can be delayed in moving for the next ball. We all do it though, and who am I to tell anyone about that.

[big ears]

I often enjoy watching clips like this more than the 'pro's'

[pingpongrob]

I often enjoy watching clips like this more than the 'pro's'

There a lot to learn - How not to hit a forhand  ;D

[big ears]

There a lot to learn - How not to hit a forhand  ;D

 Yes you may well say that, however, the looper is consistant at what he does, he's not trying to force the pace so much, he's 'in' the game, which is in his standard. It might not look pretty, but neither does this:

John Hilton vs. Gabor Gergely; Pt. 1

How not to hit a f/hand by two European champions

[pingpongrob]

Just because these 2 European Champions have ugly styles, does not mean we should learn from them. I am 100% sure that both these players would not stand a chance against any of the top 100 in the world today, I would go as far as Top 200.

What we must remember is that players that are begining to play against defenders, should still use the correct technique, instead of trying to imitate some guy thats consistent. My take on the Defender is that he's consistent, therefore the attacker has an easier job in re - attacking each ball.

Notice the serving directly out of the hand. Nearly all the strokes look untrained.

[big ears]

Sorry to disagree with you Rob, you should not compare standard from different eras, I really disagree on this, fitness and age is one thing, both these players would be top 500 world purely on their skill, John Hilton, when he can be bothered to play is always straight in the top 20 UK. Don't miss read this post, I'm not saying that they would be top 200 today, but man, you are really pushing the boundaries if you think that you can't learn from them. Obviously then, nobody in Aus can learn anything from P/ Pinkewitch. Forget styles, who would you rather have in your corner for a really important match? Trent Carter, or Paul Pinkewitch? I'm serious here, I know who I would rather have, I've never even met the guy, but I can tell you know its Pinky for me.
All that wealth and experience against the 'right way to play'

[pingpongrob]

The way I read it your agreeing with me big ears, I said they wouldnt make Top 200 & you said they would be Top 500.
I've played against Top 100 in the world, So I know whats its like to be at the other end of the Table. Infact I helped one get his Australian Title.

As for who I'd prefer to be in My Corner - thats Obvious - Paul - most things in life represent a learning experience, and Paul has a wealth of it. Trent is a fine young man, but Pauls experience stretches over many decades & many Countries.

So their you go Bigears - We do agree on many things.

[sunflex]

Yes you may well say that, however, the looper is consistant at what he does, he's not trying to force the pace so much, he's 'in' the game, which is in his standard. It might not look pretty, but neither does this:

John Hilton vs. Gabor Gergely; Pt. 1

How not to hit a f/hand by two European champions

There was a recent dicsussion about the two color rule. They mentioned that Hilton's succes(European champion) was because he used same colour both sides with anti and backside, and that he stomp his feet so you couldn't hear which side he was using. And that after the rule came in he wasn't as tough anymore.

[JKC]

He was European Champion because he was willing to do something different to everyone else. I don't think people should look down on John because rules have been changed since then which nullified his game at the top level. The fact is that he played the game within the rules as they existed at the time and people should remember that when they are being critical.

[big ears]

So their you go Bigears - We do agree on many things.

 Yes it seems we do Rob

[speedplay]

He was European Champion because he was willing to do something different to everyone else. I don't think people should look down on John because rules have been changed since then which nullified his game at the top level. The fact is that he played the game within the rules as they existed at the time and people should remember that when they are being critical.

I don't think any one looked down on him, actually, I think it is almost the opposite, cause when an association feel the needs to change their rules due to a player, he must have achieved something! Look at Ski-jump where they changed the rules when Jan Boklöv came around with his new style. After the rule change, his wasn't dominating any more, but it don't make him less great as the rule change was made due to him.

Now, there is a reference I like, as I feel Swedish Ski-jumping level compared to U.K is roughly the same as comparing our TT-level :D Eddie "The Eagle" any one? >:D >:D >:D

[JKC]

I don't think they did so much at that time, but I think some just like to belittle his achievement because it would not be allowed today. It would be like banning penhold players and then afterwards saying that Ma Lin and Wang Hao only won stuff because they held the bat in that 'cheating' style.
People need to get over it and accept that due to the circumstances, timing, the draw and a great deal of skill John Hilton won a European Championship. He might not have actually been the best in Europe or been capable of winning it at any other time in his life, but things went his way in that championship.

[Peter C]

I agree, John Hilton was a very skillful player, who won the European title on merit. i.e. he played better than his opponents.

The way he used his bat and his tactical awareness on how to use it to it's best effect, was very astute.

[speedplay]

Well, I haven't noticed any bad comments towards him, except that some people thought the game looked boring, but that isn't against any rules at all, just look at Greece and how they won the European Championship in football ;) To all our Greece members (and readers!), no offense, they won it fair and square but they sure as he** didn't play attractive football.

[priior]

i remember that game... i fell asleep!!!

[pingpongrob]

I watched the Video 2 times before I saw the Double Black sheets. I wonder how long it took Gergerly to relize what was happening.

[big ears]

I watched the Video 2 times before I saw the Double Black sheets. I wonder how long it took Gergerly to relize what was happening.

 Everyone knew what was happening, they just could not do anything about it. Incidentally, this is the last time a defensive player won a major title.

[blocker]

This is a pretty cool attacker vs defender clip and the picture quality is vg.

Koji Matsushita vs Timo Boll, 2000

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Great clip blocker. Koji has some real talent there. Very exciting player to watch and Timo simply couldn't put him away. Love those spin around returns from so far back!!

[blue_smartie68]

Loved that clip Blocker!!
There's some of the best rallies you'll see in there... must show the kids 

Those spin around turns are pretty cool Reb.. everytime I try that, I have trouble locating the table.. let alone the ball! 

[speedplay]

A really entertaining clip there Blocker, but, not to take anything away from Koji, but note that the clip was from 2000 and note what these player's current ranking are. Timo have since then learned how to deal with choppers, just look at the way he handled Evegeny chechetetinninninininini at the European Championship.

[blocker]

A really entertaining clip there Blocker, but, not to take anything away from Koji, but note that the clip was from 2000 and note what these player's current ranking are. Timo have since then learned how to deal with choppers, just look at the way he handled Evegeny chechetetinninninininini at the European Championship.

I must say that whilst I think Boll is obviously a very good player but I'm not crazy about his FH technique even though it is very efficient. If that Evegeny guy is Belarusian then I saw that match and Boll did win very easily. However, I suspect that Evegeny may not be in the same league as Matsushita or Joo Se Hyuk. I don't know much of Bolls recent performances against defenders but I found a 2010 match on youtube where Joo beat him 4-1. With such a truncated swing he has some trouble actually hitting through the topline defenders.

[speedplay]

Evgeney is the Belarusian guy and while I certainly agree that he isn't up their with Joo, Koji or even Chen Weixing, he is ~50 in the world? At least, I think this is where he is and he constantly manages to beat players who at least I thought would beat him easily.

As far as I know, Evgeny is the best purde/classical defender today, but he could really use a better attack, cause from the looks of it, my fh is almost as strong as his I'm sure this isn't the case, but compared to other player's fh.attacks, his looks like they are in slow -motion.

[blocker]

I've seen Evgeney play Boll and a couple of the good chinese and in each match he was in the wrong part of town so he can be forgiven. He gets a few good heavy side-spin chops on but his game is a fair way off the other choppers we spoke of. I agree his FH is woeful! 

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Here's a more recent vid of Boll in the Europe V Asia 2010:

Europe vs Asia 2010 - Timo Boll vs Jun Mizutani

[blocker]

good clip thanks Reb. I have seen Mitzutani in other matches and he is an amazing blocker.