What going on with these 2 players

[speedplay]

It is getting kind of amusing, this competition who has the best vet's, U.K or Aussie :D  Well, our top +40 players would probably be, 1: Waldner 2: Persson 3: Appelgren. Now, any one wants to compete for the best vet's? ;)

Also, regarding leagues, don't either of you have a Elite league in your country? Biggy might be unbeaten in the leagues he plays in, but if he came over here, I think he would be either a weak card at the second table in our second highest division, or an average player at first table in the third highest division. As for Rob and Supachop, I used to think you would be there as well, but having seen these last videos, I doubt it.

With that said, you would all still spank my butt, as I play in division 5 (equals to seventh division) with average results.

So, instead of focusing so much on who beats who, focus on the topic, what should Supachop do to beat this guy? I've given my point of view on this matter.

@Biggy, now, I don't buy this crap about you not having played against Greg, we all know that this was talked up pretty big on different forums and I'm sure you both gave it your best and Greg came out on top on the day of the event. Surely, on a different day, the results might be the opposite, but we will  never know. Heck, for all we know, Greg could have spanked you even worse if you got to play again.

[pingpongrob]

That's what I said in my last post. Let's find out what supachop needs to do, so at least he has a 50/50 chance.

Speedplay, I never said I was a top level player, would for sure never make it in your top vets division, nevertheless I am still competant with a bat, and our top vets have to work hard to beat me. Most of the time I beat myself.

I have watched Brian, an his unorthodox style is what problems me the most. Some of the shots actually look imposible, maybe that's why they are inconsistent. I also believe that supachop actually freezes when playing Brian. I see mistakes which he normally doesn't make against other quality players.

[big ears]

Also, regarding leagues, don't either of you have a Elite league in your country? Biggy might be unbeaten in the leagues he plays in, but if

@Biggy, now, I don't buy this crap about you not having played against Greg,

 I've played in our elite league, British league prem, I now play in div One (next w/end, JKC might have his camera) I don't think they have the same in Aus due to the distances, so things must be more localised. Gregg played two tournaments but did not actually beat any top 100 players, he lost at Newcastle to a player ranked around 175. Still nobody really knows how a player falls into the standard until they are there for a while, I'm sure being on holiday is not the best preparation.

 Speedy, its only fun, I know, but it always provides the best banter, fortunately everyone on This forum is big enough to take it. You are right of course we all get p*ssed on by Sweden 

[speedplay]

I love to be able to brag and take pride from other players level, simple because of my location >:D

I very much doubt that I would be top 100 (or even 200!) vets in either U.K or Aussie :o but I do enjoy the game a lot and I'm slowly improving. Heck, I'm even considering moving to a double inverted set up, that is how good I'm becoming  ;)

[big ears]

I love to be able to brag and take pride from other players level, simple because of my location >:D

I very much doubt that I would be top 100 (or even 200!) vets in either U.K or Aussie :o but I do enjoy the game a lot and I'm slowly improving. Heck, I'm even considering moving to a double inverted set up, that is how good I'm becoming  ;)

 What??? I thought you had gone down the double inverted route about 6 months ago?

[big ears]

Whats wrong with this play. What can supachop do to improve his chances against this Guy.
No he's not allowed to break his legs  :D

Phil Brian 123

 Well, I can't give advice really, what I would do being a spin loope/attacker is not relevant to supachop. Serve short to stop his considerbly powerful loopdrives would be a start.

[speedplay]

What??? I thought you had gone down the double inverted route about 6 months ago?

No, no, no, I might have tried it 6 months ago, but now I'm actually considering using it for practice for some time, to see how things goes. If everything goes well, I might change to double inverted during the mid-season break and start using it for comps as well. I'm a little bit hesitant since I haven't played with double inverted in a long time. In fact, looking back at my "active career" I've played 3/4 of the time with anti/pips on the bh, so double inverted might feel strange to begin with.

How ever, the tests I've done so far shows that I should be able to pick it up and reach the same level within a reasonable amount of time.

The worst part about becoming a double inverted player is the cost of it, cause then I will need to buy SGE rubbers for both sides, and change them every 3-5 months, while now, I only have to change one side, cause anti rubbers lasts forever. :D I might end up being the only material player who uses material due to financial reasons 8)

[JKC]

Well, I can't give advice really, what I would do being a spin loope/attacker is not relevant to supachop. Serve short to stop his considerbly powerful loopdrives would be a start.

I had the exact same thought when I first read this thread. I don't really have too much idea when it comes to advising a defender on what to do. It is easier when a game follows a pattern and you can see what is working. The only thing which seems to work is getting the ball on the table more than the other bloke because he will miss eventually.

[sunflex]

This guy has a very special style. But is too lazy and inconsistent to be a top player IMHO. He does play a lot smarter than Supachop on the video. I think you Aussie(Brian,Supachop and Rob)  guys loops are too inconsistent to be top players. Rob you also seem to be pushing quite a lot for a looper. Wiggy and JKC look a little more professional and less messing around.

[pingpongrob]

This guy has a very special style. But is too lazy and inconsistent to be a top player IMHO. He does play a lot smarter than Supachop on the video. I think you Aussie(Brian,Supachop and Rob)  guys loops are too inconsistent to be top players. Rob you also seem to be pushing quite a lot for a looper. Wiggy and JKC look a little more professional and less messing around.

If your talking about Waldner's level, then of course we are not top players. Show me a player that is a consistent looper against a good long pip player.

In practice, we can go for it all day long - but in a match its very differant. I have yet to see JKC play a good combination chopper, let alone any chopper at all. And with Wiggy, we've seen him play Greg Letts and we know the outcome of that one. I have no doubt, that both would be as inconsistent as I am against SupaChop.

Wiggy - you say that you cant give advise to a style like Supachop's. Supachop is able to play a 2 sided smooth and also as a full on attacker - looping off both wings. I have seen Supachop in tournaments out loop one of our best Veteran attackers.

So please bring on the advice - and maybe he will have to change to Smooth both sides.

[JKC]

You don't need to see me play a chopper. I can assure you that I am at my best against choppers. They give me too much time to do exactly what I want. I would fancy my chances against most choppers in the country over here. For the last 7-8 years almost all of my serious practice has been against a chopper/defender.

[pingpongrob]

You don't need to see me play a chopper. I can assure you that I am at my best against choppers. They give me too much time to do exactly what I want. I would fancy my chances against most choppers in the country over here. For the last 7-8 years almost all of my serious practice has been against a chopper/defender.

We would still love to see how you play them.

[sunflex]

If your talking about Waldner's level, then of course we are not top players. Show me a player that is a consistent looper against a good long pip player.

In practice, we can go for it all day long - but in a match its very differant. I have yet to see JKC play a good combination chopper, let alone any chopper at all. And with Wiggy, we've seen him play Greg Letts and we know the outcome of that one. I have no doubt, that both would be as inconsistent as I am against SupaChop.

Wiggy - you say that you cant give advise to a style like Supachop's. Supachop is able to play a 2 sided smooth and also as a full on attacker - looping off both wings. I have seen Supachop in tournaments out loop one of our best Veteran attackers.

So please bring on the advice - and maybe he will have to change to Smooth both sides.

I know lot;s players who are good against choppers. And I was talking about you vs that Brian guy.

[Honey]

This thread is awesome!

Sunflex, I don't know who you are, where you come from, or how good you are, but, you seem to have the right idea about the standards here.

I still bow down to the fact we have only seen videos. Rob and supachop are the only people really who know how good they are. All I can say is, the videos you see of the english lads is no where near the standard it it perceived to be. These guys are class players.

[sunflex]

This thread is awesome!

Sunflex, I don't know who you are, where you come from, or how good you are, but, you seem to have the right idea about the standards here.

I still bow down to the fact we have only seen videos. Rob and supachop are the only people really who know how good they are. All I can say is, the videos you see of the english lads is no where near the standard it it perceived to be. These guys are class players.

I'm just an average local leaque player, but I can clearly see these guys are not  top players at all at least they wouldn't be in my area. perhaps my definition of a ' local top' player is different. Even though Wiggy lost to Greg, his game looks a lot more consistent, same goes for JKC. My teammate plays a  similar game to JKC  and he beats most choppers in the area.

[priior]

have you been playing for a long time sunflex? (not asking how good you are.. but the amount of time you have played)

I have played and got crushed by enough unorthodox players to not judge one's ability to win by one's playing form!

(disclaimer: im far from being a good player... barely average)

[big ears]

are you from England Sunflex?

[pingpongrob]

I'm just an average local leaque player, but I can clearly see these guys are not  top players at all at least they wouldn't be in my area. perhaps my definition of a ' local top' player is different. Even though Wiggy lost to Greg, his game looks a lot more consistent, same goes for JKC. My teammate plays a  similar game to JKC  and he beats most choppers in the area.

I have also hit against Gregg (not that this is the same as playing a match), but I can tell you that Supachop is harder to hit against, at least for me.
Now if you believe, that pushing to much is no good, then you are wrong. The right push, and placed well is just as effective as one of you strong loops. Even top world 100 players will push the ball if necassary, obviously not for long.
I must also be missing something, How can you judge JKC & Wiggy's level from 2 of the video clips that I have seen, or are their others that I havent seen as yet.

I see a lot of Juniours that rate us poorly, only to be dissaponted when they are beat or at least have a very hard time beating us. This statement obviously goes more for supachop & Brian, as they are both a class above me - but I'm catching fast.

[speedplay]

I'm going to risk it all here by saying, you guys over estimate your own level.

I'm not going to pretend that the level here is great, cause I'm sure that there are a lot of countries in Asia and Europe with a higher level then we have here, but! The way it looks, you guys would be happy to play a division above me.

Now, why do I make a statement like that? Well, I'm going to assume that we all have kids with talent and that their talent is roughly about the same, as practice and stuff like that haven't affected them to much at this stage. So, Rob, Supachop, JKC and Biggy, what age would you have to be to be ranked as number 1 in your country? Do you beat the best 10 year old kid in your country? 12? 15? 18?

I'm evenly matched with the top rated boy up to 12 here, well, not evenly as I lose more then I win against him, but I still pose a threat to him and win some of the matches we play. With this said, i still play in one of the lower leagues available here, and I don't have an impressive record, probably close to 50-50. That is the level I have to compete against here, now, what is the level you have to compte against?

My guess is, Biggy beats the best 12 year old in U.K, not becuase he have better strokes, but because he understand the game better. Supachop probably also beats the best 12 year old in Aussie, yet again, not because of the strokes, but because of understanding the game. Rob and JKC, not trying to insult you, but how do you do against them? JKC, if this is insulting, I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how your awkward style could work at a higher level. Perhaps this is proof that I still don't understand the complexity of the game, I don't know, but I think you would have ahard time beating even the better juniors over here.

[big ears]

Four yrs ago, I beat the European Cadet no1 In a British league match, that was exeptional though, If I was a Junior (u18) I would slot in around 10 to 15, JKC would be 15- 20. At one point about 10 yrs ago I was ranked above our junior no1 ( our points used to be amalgamated for all age groups) I also was the equivalent of no8 vet, but by the time I actually reached 40 this had slipped down because I was actually older. Speedy does have a good point though, experience does count for a lot in match play, youngsters vastly underestimate it, they blame themselves for losing when in reality they have been thought out of it. what goes round comes round though....

[pingpongrob]

First of all Speedplay, I dont over estimate my Level - I'm no great player, I concider myself a good player with good understanding of the game. I'm pretty sure that I would beat the best 12, 13, 14 & maybe 15 year olds in Australia - the 15 year could be a bit of a problem.

Secondly - this thread is about Supachop & Brian, not about there levels, more about their styles, there strenghts and their weakness's. Its all about helping one of our Forum Friends improve his game. And lastly its for all to see and learn, whats right, whats wrong from technically advanced players - not the worlds greatest, but surely at a level above most forum members.
 :D  :)  8)

[big ears]

I think there is a real problem in AUS with distances, they rarely meet up as a nation, so things get regionalised. I've got thing going over on MYTT with BOZ and fruit loop, Fruitloop has been playing for less than two years, but seems to think he's not far behind the top Aussie guys, I can only think this is because of inexperience of playing them. Then we get the trickle down effect, where by someone in his locality travels to the nationals and beats someone ranked quite high, so he thinks that if he played he would do the same, blah blah and they then assume where they would be ranked if they played, its all hot air IMO.

[pingpongrob]

Actually supachop, pingpongrob & Brian all travel to the national events. Brian even travels to New Zealand Vets & sometimes the World Vets, so we have some idea of the level.
See some of the problem that I see is that Speedplay judges by open level & I judge by Vets level. I mean what hope does supachop, Brian & pingpongrob have against William Henzell or anyone that plays at that level. Sunflex & Big Ears would struggle badly as well. 

[pingpongrob]

Now back to the topic at hand.
Supachop actually plays below his level againts Brian, or as Big ears would say, Brian makes Supachop plays below his level. There is a video on YouTube of Brian playing my doubles partner, and Brian struggles.
Brian used to be a proffesional chopper for one of the Chineses womens national team, so he knows how to handle a ball. Maybe supachop would be better off playing double inverted or Short Pips close to the table. 

[supachop]

  Maybe supachop would be better off playing double inverted or Short Pips close to the table. 

Dont temp me mate.

[speedplay]

Supachop, have you played with short pips before?

I must say, I'm truly amazed by those who can handle short pips! I've tried it on a couple of different occasions, and I've never been able to handle them! Unless the incoming ball carries back spin, I can't keep the return on the table!

@Rob, yes, I always judge from the open competitions, and I think we would all struggle if we faced Henzell

As for Supachop's best way of playing Brian, I think I've mentioned something on this already, but, deep pushes and attack his body rather then the corners of the table. Don't step around to soon or to often, as this is what gets you in trouble against Brian, by the looks of the video.

[supachop]

Supachop, have you played with short pips before?

Yes Speedplay. I have played with short pips before.  Won a State O40 singles title with them.

[speedplay]

Then you keep on amazing me Supachop

[sunflex]

have you been playing for a long time sunflex? (not asking how good you are.. but the amount of time you have played)

I have played and got crushed by enough unorthodox players to not judge one's ability to win by one's playing form!

(disclaimer: im far from being a good player... barely average)

I have been playing TT for 7/8 years now. I know unorthodox players can be very tough (they say I'm one myself). I don't they say this Brian guy isn't a good player, I'm sure he's an excellent player. But you can see that he is a little lazy and not consistent enough to compared with Wiggy and JKC.

[sunflex]

I have also hit against Gregg (not that this is the same as playing a match), but I can tell you that Supachop is harder to hit against, at least for me.
Now if you believe, that pushing to much is no good, then you are wrong. The right push, and placed well is just as effective as one of you strong loops. Even top world 100 players will push the ball if necassary, obviously not for long.
I must also be missing something, How can you judge JKC & Wiggy's level from 2 of the video clips that I have seen, or are their others that I havent seen as yet.

I see a lot of Juniours that rate us poorly, only to be dissaponted when they are beat or at least have a very hard time beating us. This statement obviously goes more for supachop & Brian, as they are both a class above me - but I'm catching fast.

Yes I believe you if you say, Gregg is tougher than he looks on the video, but Wiggy and JKC also know that. About the pushing part, I don't say pushing is not a good thing. But because you're talking about 'top and good local' leaque players I don't expect them to be pushing more than 1 time because you will give the opponent a chance to attack and at that level all balls which are too long are attacked IMHO. About JKC and Wiggy's level I can't say how good they exactly are but I can see they have solid strokes and good openers. Brian and You look a little less consistent with less solid strokes.
As I said before I'm sure you guys are pretty hard to beat, especially against juniors. , but I think wiggy and jkc are more consistent and know the tricks. Th