What going on with these 2 players

[pingpongrob]

Whats wrong with this play. What can supachop do to improve his chances against this Guy.
No he's not allowed to break his legs  :D

Phil Brian 123

[priior]

wow nice games!!

the guy's forehand block is sick!!

i think supachop figured it out at the end that he needs to play mostly the backhand and with heavy spin. it's too bad he (supachop) doesn't have a killer backhand loop... i have a feeling rob would fare better against him maybe?

he's really good at the fast pace game too (you can tell thats what he wants from his serve).. slowing it down a bit might be worth trying?

his cross over point is somewhere deep in the backhand!


disclaimer: i dont pretend im better than any of the 2... just posting this in the spirit of generating discussion!!

[JKC]

My initial thoughts on this vid are that the player in black is either a player who knows he can beat Superchop and is just trying out a few things or that he is a player who has been better in the past and is a little out of practice. I could be well wide of the mark and it could just be a style thing though. It is only practice of course and a real match could be a lot more cagey with a lot more tight play.

If I was Superchop, I would be tempted to rush him a little more with his heavy forehand topspin (but this is my answer to most things - with BH too), but whether SC is consistent enough with that style I don't know. It would probably come down to whether SC's opponent really has the extra gear he looks to have and can up his consistency and shot selection when the pressure was on.

[pingpongrob]

This is what happens when I play him.
Supachop cant reply at the moment as his Internet is Down.
Can anyone guess what style of rubbers he's using, and dont say inverted. I mean Chinese - German - Japanese

Brian and Rob

[JKC]

I still can't work this guy out, he looks like someone who has the potential to hand out a serious beating to both of you, but whether it is because it is practice or whatever he doesn't seem to get his 3/4 pace consistent game going. If he does get more interested I think you might find yourself in serious trouble.

[big ears]

I'm not quaking in my bed tonight. Hold on , That's not supachop you are playing here Rob, supachop is better than that, IMO.

[pingpongrob]

I still can't work this guy out, he looks like someone who has the potential to hand out a serious beating to both of you, but whether it is because it is practice or whatever he doesn't seem to get his 3/4 pace consistent game going. If he does get more interested I think you might find yourself in serious trouble.

This is the pace that this Guy always plays at. You cant rush him.

[pingpongrob]

I'm not quaking in my bed tonight.

OK - you got me again, what does this mean.

[JKC]

This is the pace that this Guy always plays at. You cant rush him.

I mean rush him as in get the first topspin in long fast and heavy and follow it up. Put a bit of pressure on. I would want to find out if he has more consistency than he needs to show against the two of you. Or whether he is always so hit and miss. The vid doesn't really show whether he is just toying with you and doing just enough to win. 

[Der Echte]

Supachop got punished (with an angled push) on many short/half long serves to the guy's FH side and on his step around FH hits. (Guy bocked at wide angle curving away from SC). With this opponent, stepping around better result in a winner, or it is not worth trying. Unless SC twiddles and BH loops, that step around isn't so high percentage. Supachop's deep heavy topspins worked out for points. Short low serves worked for him well. SC's openers/counters to the crossover gave better than a 50/50 shot. Some of SC's chopping rallies gave him a shot, but it seemed like he couldn't get into them as much as he wanted.

I kinda see it like JKC. It seems like this guy could play even better, but is holding back some.

[priior]

i donno... his style is way too unorthodox to be holding back!

he seems to be very consistent with the mid range balls. the deep or short ones are more of a toss up.

what style his racket... no idea.. but he should be using short pips ;)

[JKC]

Not holding back as such, just not really giving it his full concentration.

What Big Ears means is that he still hasn't seen anyone who he would worry about playing yet. I would like to see our new player stretched a little and forced to concentrate more, but these vids have made my mind up about how I think I would get on against Rob and SC.

[pingpongrob]

Not holding back as such, just not really giving it his full concentration.

I'll give you the news fella's - he's definetely concentrating. Thats just his style, never flusted.

What would you think he'd be ranked in our forum ranking

[JKC]

In which case then he would be below Big Ears, and me with Superchop and you bringing up the rear. He could well be below both you and SC in actual fact if you can play consistently against him.

[big ears]

The Mullet guy has a real inconsistent f/hand.

[JKC]

The Mullet guy has a real inconsistent f/hand.

You can't say things like that Big Ears. You are insulting the Australian National Haircut by calling it a mullet. He looks a lot bigger than you, lucky he is a long way away.

[speedplay]

Whats wrong with this play. What can supachop do to improve his chances against this Guy.
No he's not allowed to break his legs  :D

He shouldn't have to break his legs to beat him. The way I see it, Supa "cheats" to much, that is, stepping around to soon, leaving his fh corner wide open for this guy to block, flip/flick at, costing Supa lots of points.

Also, when Supa attack this guys feeds on Supa's speed, using it against him, so Supa should try to not focus so much on speed, but rather on spin as the guy seems to have problems against heavy spin.

His fh power seems to be great, but he isn't working with his body, not even the entire arm, it looks more like it is generated from the wrist and this works good above the table, but by pushing deep, with heavy backspin, I think Supa would make it a lot harder for this guy to attack.

So, serve short, low backspin to his fh, once the opportunity is there to attack, attack his bh corner, preferably more spin then speed.

I have to say, having watched you guys play (Rob and Supa) and then watching this guy play, my guess would have been that you both would pick him apart with out to much problems.

[speedplay]

Rob, I have to give it to you, you were a little bit unlucky since he caught way more nets then you did. You have often said that you are very happy with your bh, yet I found that you tried to step around to use your fh, leaving the same gap in the fh corner as Supachop, although not so severely punished by it as Supachop was.

If you look at the video, you might have noticed that even you, the two winged looper, won most of the pushing rallies with this guy. Deep pushes caused him problems. Another thing, playing in to his pocket resulted most of the time in him trying to hit a killing fh, with very little luck.

His strengths seems to be his speed (on the ball, certainly not in his feet!) and his fh-block, so 90% of your attacks should be aimed at his bh and much more focused on spin then speed. Fast shots were blocked back, giving you problems to reach them, but spin shots caused him to miss his block and even if he did get the block back at the table, you had more time to get in position for the next shot.

So, will you reveal who this guy is? A aussie veteran player? A team mate?

[big ears]

Is it Cody of home and away? (12000 miles JKC)

[JKC]

I haven't really watched since the first Pippa left so haven't got a clue who you are on about. I did work out based on their soaps that all Australian ladies (even the older ones) are very attractive though as I'm sure they are just a random sample picked for they acting ability alone.

[big ears]

I meant Toady, not Cody.

[JKC]

Isn't that neighbours?

[supachop]

It just shows how hard it is to judge players just be watching a video.
Brian is a very good player. Much better than Rob and myself.

[pingpongrob]

It just shows how hard it is to judge players just be watching a video.
Brian is a very good player. Much better than Rob and myself.

For those that dont think he is very good, then have a read of this article http://ausvet.wordpress.com/2009/

He is one of the best players around - he still puts a lot of pressure on the top Aussie players. In fact if you do want to judge his standard, then the last 2 times he played Gregg Letts, he beat him easily.

As an update, the last game I played against Brian that I did not publish due to Youtube's 10min limitation - he beat me easily.

[speedplay]

Fill me in here, Vic is like one part of Australia, not the entire country, right?

It is always strong to win age related competitions that is so far below your actual age, seeing how Brian won the 40's when being 56. Still, the main question is, how many of the best 40 years old did play in the event? Cause here, most players enter the open events even if they are allowed to play in the 40's event.

Easily beating Gregg is impressive, but he does have a strange style and by the looks of the videos posted, he looked like he struggled with long heavy back spin pushes. Guess I better come down under and teach you guys on how to play him ;)

[big ears]

beating Gregg certainly means something, I don't think this guy would particularly stand out In the English Vetts which is much stronger than Aus. Locally, my county has 7 towns cities, which all have a league, most leagues consist of 3 or 4 Divisions, one league has 6 divisions of 12 teams.  Each team has three players which means my County has a total playing population of 800+ players. Now, you guys don't know what the standard is, so I'll let you come to your own conclusions, but the fact is I have been the no1 Male player in my county for the last 15 yrs in both mens and since I've been one, Vets (on and OFF) It sounds fantastic, but Its not really cos the standard is relatively low IMO,  but on the other hand, you rarely get 800 players without some quality in there. We can all look good on paper. Out of those leagues My home town is Lincoln, I play in the league, and have not lost a single match since 1998, It means nothing until one of you has been to Lincoln and played some of the players, then you will think '' eh this wiggy guy must be good'' or '' eh this Wiggy guy is full of Sh*t''

[Honey]

Whilst I'm not a top player by any means, I'm lucky enough to play at a really good club where I get to see top English players (alot of players in the 30-150 range, around big ear's standard) play week in week out for our club, and against our club in the strong local Premier Division. I've not seen a video so far that I believe could live up to the standard that I see every week. Sorry guys.

It's nothing personal, your great players, just a matter of opinion! I see you as some of those top 250 ish players that can give the top 100 a run for their money, but haven't got the consistency to compete properly. You might win the occasional game (as I've seen happen in local league with these 2 standards competing) but thats all.

That's not saying you don't have the potential to get to wiggy's standard. You look like you all (three of you) have full rounded games, and, your already close.

[pingpongrob]

Fill me in here, Vic is like one part of Australia, not the entire country, right?

It is always strong to win age related competitions that is so far below your actual age, seeing how Brian won the 40's when being 56. Still, the main question is, how many of the best 40 years old did play in the event? Cause here, most players enter the open events even if they are allowed to play in the 40's event.

Easily beating Gregg is impressive, but he does have a strange style and by the looks of the videos posted, he looked like he struggled with long heavy back spin pushes. Guess I better come down under and teach you guys on how to play him ;)

Victoria is our home state - Its quite large in Population but the second smallest state in Australia. We have the most players in Australia (Of course no where as much as the UK). Brian has been the stand out player for many years, his pictures are scattered around many club's - he is also the Australian Paralympian coach.

He is also seeded very high in most tournaments no matter where he goes.

According to the latest Australian ranking:
Greg Letts is ranked 19 in the over 30's
and Brian is 22. So looking at these facts alone, their are at least 18 people above Greg Lett's standard, so the standard in Australia must also be pretty good.

Brian is Ranked 12 in the over 40's & 8 in the Over 50's.

A few years back, one of your english Veterans came over (I forget his name, my so practiced with him), and was beaten by Paul Pinkewich (ranked 9 in the over 30's, 2 in the Over 40's & 1 in the over 50's)

If what Wiggy says about his standard is correct, (And we already know that he is a very good player) then he is an exceptional player that should never have lost to Gregg. Or that the Veterans standard in the UK is not as good as he suggests.

[big ears]

I've never played Gregg, what you saw was a a few games at the end of a training session. My highest English veteran Ranking is 16. The player who lost to P/Pinkewitch was Abdul Woreola, he is notoriously bad at playing choppers, he has lost to choppers outside the English top 100 vets. Did You say you practiced with Abdul Rob? well I have beaten him, so you can get some kind of comparison there surely. If P/Pinklewitch was based in England he would be top 20 vet, but not gauranteed top 10.

[pingpongrob]

I've never played Gregg, what you saw was a a few games at the end of a training session. My highest English veteran Ranking is 16. The player who lost to P/Pinkewitch was Abdul Woreola, he is notoriously bad at playing choppers, he has lost to choppers outside the English top 100 vets. Did You say you practiced with Abdul Rob? well I have beaten him, so you can get some kind of comparison there surely. If P/Pinklewitch was based in England he would be top 20 vet, but not gauranteed top 10.

My Son practised with Abdul, whilst he was in Queensland, they became quite good friends.
I would say that the veterans ranking between Australia & the UK would be quite similar. Judging by all the comments so far Wiggs would be ranked quite quite high.

Back to the original subject though, And Wigg's answer would be very much appreciated - what does Supachop have to do to make a win easier.