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Rob, believe me, I wasn't referring to you when I said basement players who thinks they are advanced intermediate. Think hard and I'm sure you will know who I was thinking of. You, on the other hand, I would rate as advanced intermediate. Perhaps you read this as an insult as well, but that isn't the intention, it just goes to show how different we look at the different levels.Biggy put it well, with the butt whooping analogy. Speaking of which, I just got back from practice where I grabbed a deuce (instead of playing best of 3, during practice we often go for two games, regardless of the result, we then switch, this is to keep the flow going) against the best player in the team a division above me :D That was a the first time ever for me against him. So, yeah, I consider it a whooped his ass 8)Style can make the difference, but there's got to be something else, as me and another player at the club play a pretty similar style, yet we make very different results. Obviously, some has to do with him being a level above me, but, when we play, he whoop my ass every single time. The same with the guy I got a deuce with, he whoops him as well. Then there is this other guy, who I play evenly with, but my anti partner almost always lose to him. This is partly the reason why I love the game so much, cause unless there is a huge gap in level, it is very hard to predict the outcome of a game, cause as long as neither of the players are Chinese, then it can go either way ;)