The Power Of Hinoki

[pingpongrob]

Hinoki timber has been used in the manufacter of table tennis blades for a long time. manufacturers claim that it improves feeling, what are your experiences with Hinoki Timber.

I have a few blades with Hinoki plies, and one of our esteemed members just recently bought one thats made from 200+ year old Hinoki.

Does anyone know which blade has the claim of being the first. I'm a little young to answer this question.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I only have one blade with Hinoki Rob. Its the LKT Ayous-Hinoki. A cheap little blade, but quite nice for its price. I currently have purger's AWC (American White Cedar) One-ply which is considered a Hinoki I think. Its fairly stiff, and has some vibration feedback. Reasonably quick but not as quick as other Hinoki blades Purger has (including the 200 year old blade you mentioned). That blade sounds like something else and its from Galaxy what's more! Not the company I'd have expected it from as I'm more used to carbon offerings from them. However, I imagine if it was from anyone else the price would be double. Certainly looks like a quality blade (as do so many of the Galaxy blades).

Don't know much (read any) of the Hinoki blade history, sorry.  :lol:

[ckhugo]

Hi Rob,,

This will go back yrs, but it will be a JPEN made by some Japanese,,,
wait, let me see if I can dig something up...

ok,, it was back in 1903Professor Hirayi brought TT back to Japan from europe and called it table tennis rather than ping pong.. and it was within that few yrs the 1st Hinoki Jpen was borned..

Who made it? ,, not BTY for sure    , its some wood craft person who just put one together, and back in that time, it would be easier to use 1 thick ply than sticking few thin plies of woods if you can find one that is.

[purger]

Hi all. I got from Rob  Galaxy 1 ply Kiso Hinoki #200. First compared to the market it is reall value for money as well unique blade. It has nice soft feel and nice touch. #200 is wery fast and has good control to. Quality is exelent and handle fitts perfect in my hand. Real pleasure to play with.

[rokphish]

Have Kokutaku 3008 a lil over 9mm (which is supposed to be 300 years old hinoki), Juic Kiso Hinoki 8.5mm, and have played with Darker Speed 90 (cpen 10mm used in shakehand mode), and few minutes hits with Senkoh Max 10mm.

First three are above average, Senkoh is not there in feel.
I'm so interested with the Darker too bad it's a cpen.
Anyone has tips to convert the cpen to shakehand?

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I did it with one blade I had that was C-pen Rok. Actually made it into quite a nice feeling blade. I cut about 20mm off the end of a hammer handle and glued and taped it to the end of the c-pen. It added about 20grams to the blade but because it was at handle end it made the balance feel great. I lent the blade out to see if someone wanted to buy it, and it came back without my addition. Not happy! But this wasn't a bad way to convert it.

[aeoliah]

I'm so interested with the Darker too bad it's a cpen.
Anyone has tips to convert the cpen to shakehand?

Rok, why don't you get the Darker Hinoki Shake Speed 90 ?

[speedplay]

I have only tried the Juic Kiso Hinoki, it's not only my only Hinoki blade, but it's also my only single ply blade, so I'm not sure what it was that created the feel, the Hinoki or the single ply construction?

At first, it felt great but once I moved back to the Wavestone, I realised I had lost tons of spin while using the Kiso Hinoki. Excellent blade for flat hitting as it was very easy to control in the short game and provided great speed for flat hits, but for me, it didn't work very well to loop with.

[rokphish]

Rok, why don't you get the Darker Hinoki Shake Speed 90 ?

You mean the shake hand version?
I might after I get the year-end bonus...

[rokphish]

It added about 20grams to the blade but because it was at handle end it made the balance feel great.

20g sounds heavy... did you super glue it or what?

[pingpongrob]

Last Monday Night, I used a new Yinhe Blade called a DL-1. Its outer plies are Hinoki - not thin ones either. I stuck my regular Roxon 450 rubbers onto it with Andro Free glue.
 This blade is carbon based - so its quite fast, and most of you know how much I like fast blades, but one thing surprised me, its quite a stiff blade and normally I dont like stiff blades.

I proceded to have a short warm up with it against SupaChop, and to my amazement, the balls all landed on the table but at a much faster pace.

Now just to fill you in, Monday nights practice did not go to well for me, as SupaChop was on his Game, And Purger can vouch for that, as we both got a whipping.

So after my short warm up, Supachop & I proceded to have a Set. Well My A game came back (must have been hiding) and I beat my mate (or he let me Win)

So the question I have to ask is:

1. Was it the Hinoki outer layers that make the blade have such a soft feel.
2. Is it the Carbon layers that make the blade fast.
3. Is it the thickness of the blade that make it stiff or the addition of the Caron layers.

Having a close look at the contruction of this blade reminds me of a Butterfly Gergely - Which I also own. Pictures to come soon.

[purger]

That is wery good question Rob. I can only say wat i read about carbon even I did play with few carbon blades and im not big fan of carbon buti think carbon stiffens the blade and hinoki makes blade softer and faster and I think that thicker hinoki ply"s make blade faster same like in 1 ply hinoki blades 9mm compared to 10mm hinoki would beslower so thickness of the ply"s should increase the speed :lol:  to bad that I only bounce ball on blade so maybe next time be good if I could try in practise

[RebornTTEvnglist]

It added about 20grams to the blade but because it was at handle end it made the balance feel great.

20g sounds heavy... did you super glue it or what?

No just wood glue (PVA) and masking tape, so I could get it off again if I wanted. Trouble is it let someone else get it off too  ;)  

[OHara]

How does Nittaku Septear compares with all other Hinoki blades discussed here..??

[blocker]

I have only tried the Juic Kiso Hinoki, it's not only my only Hinoki blade, but it's also my only single ply blade, so I'm not sure what it was that created the feel, the Hinoki or the single ply construction?

At first, it felt great but once I moved back to the Wavestone, I realised I had lost tons of spin while using the Kiso Hinoki. Excellent blade for flat hitting as it was very easy to control in the short game and provided great speed for flat hits, but for me, it didn't work very well to loop with.

I used a butterfly (I think) Hinoki once ages ago and my experience with it was similar to Speedplay's - very good for flat-hitting but terrible for looping. In most respects it was similar to a fast carbon - no touch, no spin/dip when looping, etc. They could well be totally different these days but give me a slower more flexible bat any day.

[speedplay]

Since this tread was created, I've tried yet another Hinoki blade, the LKT Ayous Hinoki mentioned by Reb. Considering the price, it gave great value, but it wasn't a marvellous blade in any way. Despite this, Hinoki still have a mgic ring in my ears and as soon as I read about a blade that has Hinoki in it, I'm beginning to drool Would love it if Dawei made a Wavestone where the outer ply was replaced by Hinoki...

[blocker]

I have a few blades with Hinoki plies, and one of our esteemed members just recently bought one thats made from 200+ year old Hinoki.
Does anyone know which blade has the claim of being the first. I'm a little young to answer this question.

I'm not sure if it was the first Hinoki blade but I'm pretty sure a quite early one was a one-ply Japanese-penhold blade made by Butterfly.

[RebornTTEvnglist]

Would love it if Dawei made a Wavestone where the outer ply was replaced by Hinoki...

Pretty sure they do make one...its called a Gergely...funny thing though, Dawei badge it as Butterfly for some reason...perhaps so they can charge more 

[speedplay]

Pretty sure they do make one...its called a Gergely...funny thing though, Dawei badge it as Butterfly for some reason...perhaps so they can charge more 

I doubt that the Gergely is the same as a Wavestone except for the outer plies. And if it is, the price tag reduces my interest to about zero. No hollow handle on the gergely, right?

[RebornTTEvnglist]

I doubt that the Gergely is the same as a Wavestone except for the outer plies. And if it is, the price tag reduces my interest to about zero. No hollow handle on the gergely, right?

Yeah thats true, handle is not hollow. I wouldn't like it if it was LOL

[Silver]

Wavestone has a thicker core, very thin outers. 0.5mm.
Gergely has much thicker outers - like >1mm - and is thicker overall.

[speedplay]

Thanks for the clarification.

Now, for the equipment pro's here, what would the difference be on a Wavestone if the outer plies was replaced with Hinoki? I'm imagening a soft feel, but I've been told that Hinoki changes the angle you use when looping and that it also changes the angel when looping up close and looping away from the table?

Perhaps Hinoki is just one of those crazy dreams and really not something I would like at all?