RoXon 450 vs Coppa JO Platin vs Coppa JO Platin Soft

[ckhugo]

Hi All,

As promised, an initial review of these 3 new tensor rubbers that everyone has being excited about.

To continue on from my previous post, below are the aspects that I was testing the rubbers on:

Rubber tested: Roxon 450 2.0m in black, Platin 2.0m in black & Platin soft 2.0m in red.
Blade: Platins were on Rob's Andro Aramid carbon, Roxon was on my Sword Ayous Arylate-carbon.

1. Ability to lift pushes and slow loop:
All 3 rubbers were considerably grippier than the previous tensors (Plasmas, Impulse, Omegas, JO, COR, Hammond X, Morristo) I have hit so far, but it still require an euro mechanical swing where you hit into the sponge to produce the spin. The improvements I see here common for all 3 rubbers are that on slower loops where you don't fully dig into sponge but as long as you have hit into the pips, then the "grab" is there to bite the ball. Once, I was comfortable with adjusting back to mechanical swing and trust the rubber to do the work, with proper weight xfer forward, looping chops were easy with decent pace and spin.

So, the initial summary here is if you are currently using euro rubbers or German tensors then I am sure you would like these new tensors straight the way. But if you are coming off Chinese rubbers then it would need some adjustment as these tensor topsheets are still considerable softer so the impact contact would be different where you need to hold the power release for just a split second longer to get the full benefit from it.

To rank the level of lifting underspin I would rate:
Platin > Roxon > Platin Soft
 
While, spin wise:
Roxon > Platin > Platin Soft


2. Ability to keep short pushes low and short:
In general, this has improve a lot for all 3 rubbers, the annoying "pop" were almost gone, and when I say "almost" is sometimes when you rush a bit to do a push and the ball dig into the sponge too much and your blade face was too open, it still has that bounce.. BUT, at least its not full on upward this time, but bcoz of the grippier topsheet the pop-bounce becomes a more forward arc, so, its actually good for deep pushes actually - these lands fast, deep while controllable.

After some practice, I figure the way to keep the pushes short and low is to play with the topsheet only, meaning, let the topsheet do the bite & spin while keep the sponge out of play.
This way, the short pushes were LOW, relatively short but FAST.. I know this sounds weird, but the ball do leave the blade faster than what I am used to and the ball was so low that I was like, gezz, this is annoying enough for me to watch, it must pisses my opponent off   :oops: ) - SO, I would really keep this open and hope ROB, SUPACHOP, and DANIEL would add their comments to this.


4. Ability to block, and flat hit:
Blocking wise, they were all quite controllable, and Platin soft produces the highest arc, and Platin produces the fastest rebound while Roxon was the most consistent in my mind.

Flat hit wise, so far I found all 3 - no good, but if you hit and add a lit bit topspin then they all can do it.

Blocking ranking:
Roxon > Platin > Platin Soft
(once again, this requires further discussions since I currently uses Hurricane 2 on BH and to me Hurricane 3 was too slow, and the only tensor I liked was plasma 430 max on my BH, so to me Rob's BH's Impulse speed was like mashed potato, which,, I couldnt even do anything with.

Flat Hit ranking:
Platin > Roxon > Platin Soft
Same as above, need further inputs, but 1 thing I notice about Platin was that it has that hard metal crips click sound like some of the current tensors and normally these tensors are bit better at hitting, which to me felt true.


5. Serve:
Given all 3 rubbers are gippier than the current tensors, the test were mainly on spin & control.

The ranking for serving:
Roxon > Platin > Platin Soft

To me, roxon was the spinnest on slower shots, so, serves, pushes and slow loops, while Platin closely followed. The only thing about Platin is it has a bit less spin on serve.


So, in summary:

Roxon and Platin comes close as the winner while Platin soft turns out to be the least liked for me - and this was partly to my surprise since I generally liked softer rubber on FH, yet, the disappointment from Jo Silver was still fresh in my mind, it became less of a surprise.

1 extra note,
Roxon is exceptional at close to table off bounce counter loop. So, if you are that good to say thats an important part of your game then you would love Roxon.
The ball lands over low, fast, dips but very controllable and you can almost go as fast as you like and have blade face as closed as you like.

In Contrary, Platin is exceptional for on the rise. apex counter loop where a slightly closed blade face actually produces a decent hit-drive that also lands exceptionally low, flat and fast and once again controllable - you can go really fast and still feel in control once you starting to trust the rubber.

Platin Soft: in the other hand, allows the ball to dig into the sponge but with slower rebound time so in terms produces a higher arc, hence a longer arc, so if you are currently using softer version of the tensors and like med to high throw rubbers then this would be a good choice since I would rate it better than impulse speed and on par with Omega 2 Euro if not better.

And the million dollar question, which should you buy, well, this is a very subjective one, but I might be able to provide some indication:

If you are used to the JO family line of the Donic rubber then Platin would definitely be the go since it still has a similar topsheet feel to the original JO, and with super tuned 2.2 JO (power boost + priming with speed glue) I still fell the platin provides 1 extra gear in speed while sill maintain that crispy topsheet feel.

On the other hand, if you have enjoyed the plasmas & omegas & actually liked Bryce FX glued then Roxon would be the go as it has a feel of a slightly tuned down German mixed with the Japanese rubber feel.

Information I got from other forum, Roxon 450 2.2 apparently goes really well on hardish composite blade like Mizutani, Timo & Primorac Carbon while Roxon 500 goes well on slightly softer but springer blades such DHS WLQ, clipper & Andro Super cell core carbon.

Cheers,
H

[michaelh]

Thanks to Rob and Hugo I had my first hit with the Roxon 450 2mm Black tonight.

first impression: fast and nice speed glue feel. If you don't know you'll be thinking it a speed glued rubber.

Goods:
its the first german tensor rubber that doesn't pop when you do a short push. i currently play with Hurricane 3. I was really surprised.
Alot of spin when you serve due to grippy topsheet. However when i loop i couldn't get spin... wait a minute.. that doesn't make sense.. I later figured that it's the Blade! too fast and not enought dwell time. One last thing, you get good control when you block with it too.

Bad:
At the moment there isn't much i can say execpt that the rubber is a little picky with blades. Since it's not my rubber i couldn't try it on another blade. and the Cost? i hope it lasts longer than typical german tensor rubbers.

[ckhugo]

Apologies MichaelH,

That is already the slowest/softest blade I got,, so,, cant help you much on that one :P

Anyway, I think on hard blades, you really need 2.2m sponge to have that extra bit of cushion before the ball gets to the blade or even the firmer sponge Roxon 500.

H

[vncoder]

ckhugo,
Which one between Roxon and Platin is a better replacement for plasma 430 on the F/H if  I want something more spinny than 430 and at least as fast on topspins. Is Platin a lot firmer than Roxon?
I have a 7 ply hinoki blade, which is the best thickness to match with it (2mm or max)?
Thanks.

[pingpongrob]

ckhugo,
Which one between Roxon and Platin is a better replacement for plasma 430 on the F/H if  I want something more spinny than 430 and at least as fast on topspins. Is Platin a lot firmer than Roxon?
I have a 7 ply hinoki blade, which is the best thickness to match with it (2mm or max)?
Thanks.

The Roxon 450 feels softer than Platin, but its still considerably faster. Both rubbers are more spinny than their predecessors.

[ckhugo]

Hi vncoder,

Welcome to the forum.

On an all wood hinoki blade and you coming off 430, I would say Roxon may be the better choice.

I think the major difference is Roxon has gears compares to Plasma, as Plasma was just fast    

But 1 thing though, Roxon topsheet would feel slightly softer with more grab than Plasma, so initially you might feel its slower but in fact the actual pace of the ball would be similar to 430.

So, on which hinoki blade and what thickness of 430 are you using?

Cheers,
H

[vncoder]

Thanks a lot for your advice.
I am using the septear with 430 max on my F/H thanks to Rob's recommendation. It took me 2 weeks to grow into it and I really like it now, my topspin balls are harder to return (I don't know why but the plasma seems to provide a funny kick that my opponents find it harder to return than compare the normal Inspirit).
One thing though, my plasma has ripped badly in the middle and is not playable now after 5 weeks so I am looking for a replacement.

Do I have to make any adjustment coming from the 430? When you said in your review that the Roxon lands shorter than the plasma so the ball is less violent, does that mean it's easier to handle or would it still provide good kicks on topspins.
Cheers.

[ckhugo]

Hi vncoder,

Septear - I actually wanted that blade  
So, how is it? Is it all hinoki? or just the outer?

As for the kick, I do agree plasma has that kick, but I havent had a chance of playing someone who uses Roxon to compare as yet. I should be able to have a hit with Rob using Roxon next wk so I can make the comparison.

One thing though, hinoki blades tend to produce longer arc as well, so I dont think a slightly shorter arc from the rubber would effect that much, besides that means u can hit harder without being scared its gonna go long.

Thats why on my 1ply hinoki champion pro silver (10m), I only use 729 FX, a very tacky, med throw, hard and not very fast rubber. This combo works well to leverage the long arc from the blade.

Cheers,
H

[dwie]

Currently playing 2 Impuls Speed on the Waldner Carbon Senso. What would be a better replacement for the impuls speed?

Also with some of these tensors I found they played different from day to day, if you catch my drift. Not very consistent playing. Anyone experienced the same problems?

[pingpongrob]

Currently playing 2 Impuls Speed on the Waldner Carbon Senso. What would be a better replacement for the impuls speed?

If you used to the impuls speed, then stay away from the Roxon & Platin as they will be way harder to control. What sort of problems are you having with your rubbers - most people that tried Impuls speed think its a great rubber.

Also with some of these tensors I found they played different from day to day, if you catch my drift. Not very consistent playing. Anyone experienced the same problems?

Personally I disagree, I have found them very consistent to play with - but I come from a speed gluing background we consistency is non existent.

The only problem I find, and this applies to most rubbers - Humidity & temperature affects the spin character very much, thats why its important to keep you bat warm during the night.

Please post your concerns, so we can all try and help.

[pingpongrob]

Do I have to make any adjustment coming from the 430?

From the short hit that I had, before Supachop ripped the rubber of my blade, I can say that it felt similar, but grippier and more controllable than the Plasma 430, and at the same time Faster - Very hard to understand. I will Place a sheet of Max Roxon 450 on my Forehand, and play with it for a few weeks before making a desision.

We played our Final last night (used the Platin ) and we were the Victors 6 - 2. Cant say I played that good, but I did win all my matches.

One comment that surprised me though after my pennant matches on Wednesday.

The no. 1 over 40's Veteran came up to me and made a comment that I was using a new rubber, and he was told that it produced lots of spin. After having a very brief hit, he said that he believed it was slow, so I said to him - "Its not slow, just very controllable - try hitting the ball flatter, after a few more hits he agreed that yes its fast but controllable"

That confirms that the touchiness of the previous Tensors has been improved considerably.

[Silver]

Just out of interest, who's the current Vic No1. O40's Vet?

[ckhugo]

Congrads Rob on winning it and I am sure Daniel is a happier man  

You are right about these tensors are controllable and hitting flatter actually produce more speed with Platin. This is what I said previously about these rubbers have "gears", its not an all out on every shot tensor anymore but the improved version that allows you the option to produce speed, or take off pace.

The secret of producing speed really lies in how much you hit into the sponge, hence, what I said previously about moving forward and hold that split second before releasing.

The main difference so far is that to get this with Platin you need a flatter blade face while with Roxon you can do it with a more closed face and it stays true to the angle of your blade face.

The beauty of these rubbers are that you can actually do a semi-brush stroke, where you don't fully brush with the surface but brush when the ball is dig into the pip then you get considerable grab.

DWIE: I would agree with Rob on this one that these new tensors with grippier topsheet reduces a lot of the inconsistencies due to temp, moist or dust. And I feel it produces a lit bit longer dwell time than the previous tensors so I was able to do the loop where I hold the ball and drag to where I want it to go - I know this sound weird but the original JO was superb at doing this and both Platin and Roxon allows me to do that a bit.

Cheers,
H

[pingpongrob]

Just out of interest, who's the current Vic No1. O40's Vet?

Brian Berry - Over 40's & 50's
http://http://www.insports.com.au/ttv/upload/points/TTVRankingsApr08.pdf

[vncoder]

Hugo,
Septear is a 7 ply all hinoki blade. The main reason I love this blade is the feel, the feeling and ball feedback is exceptional. Some people might not like this feel but those that likes the all wood feel will like it. It has the control of an all/all+ blade and the speed of an off blade.  Looping with it is very nice.
I can't wait to test it with the Roxon 450.
I don't know why but sometimes I felt that plasma 430 didn't allow me enough time to do spinny slow loops but then at other times away from the table I wished that the sponge was firmer so I can get a better kick with the ball.

[ckhugo]

vncoder,

Now you make me wanting to get the septear,  :mrgreen:  

But, so far I have not heard of anyone complaining about 430 being weak away from the table.
So, an interesting remark, considering you are using 2.2 while Rob and Daniel (Rob's son whos playing with me in the same team in the moment) play away from the table a lot, so much that what they do in 1 night is like what I do in a year  :mrgreen: ).
They both only use 2.0m, and in fact, Daniel only uses impulse speed and Plasma 380. And from a personal experience, I think 430 is better playing away from the table than close to table.

Therefore, would you mind elaborate a bit more on what you meant by a bit more kick away from the table? And what are you comparing to as in "kick"?

Cheers,
H

[vncoder]

Hugo,
You are right. I had the same problem when I first tried Plasma 430. I found it hard to control close to the table, it was too bouncy, my third ball attack lost some consistency but then I got used to it after a week and I play better with it close to the table now. May be it's because I counter loop a lot, my sheet is not playable no more after 5 weeks. I have 3-4 wholes in the center of my rubber.

You are right, far away from the table is where the plasma 430 shines. What I meant is that sometimes away from the table I want to finish off the point and I felt that the plasma 430 didn't give me the power and spin I like(it is still powerful enough but I want more, e.g. speed glued bryce). With a bit harder rubber I can get the power and spin and hence the ball travels with pace and it kicks once it bounces on the other side with lots of spins. Sorry if I sound confusing but this is only my personal feeling and reference and it only happens once in a while. For most of the times I am quite happy with the plasma 430 for an attacking game.
I can't wait to try out the Roxon 450 tomorrow on the septear. From your review and Rob's it sounds like it is the rubber I have been looking for.

If you are into the feel then you will love the septear. One thing though it's light(75-82g) and the handle is thin (similar to Acoustics) so you might not like it.
Cheers.

[speaquinox]

Can anybody compare Platin and Platin Soft's sponge hardness to JO Silver or Desto F2? Even though I get very good performance with JO Silver, it seems a bit soft for my taste on the Darker 7P-2A.7T, and on the other hand med-hard sponge may not be good for it. So I'm looking for smthin in between. I also hope that Platin serves and pushes better.

[Wiz]

Hey speaquinox,

I'd say the regular Platin would be a much better choice than the softer version. You could also take a look at BTY Bryce Speed FX which I think would be a good choice as well.

[Mars63]

Hi Guys,

I am eagerly awaiting for the arrival of the Roxon 500 pro but was just wondering how many of you think/feel it is necessary to superprime these new generation of tensor rubbers before you use them,  so that they feel a little broken in from the first time you use them. If you do prime these rubbers what type of glue or method do you use.
 
Is it still acceptable to use old normal (non water based) or speed glue and then let it air out to get rid of the VOC fumes before using it?

thanks in advance
Mars

[pingpongrob]

Hi Guys,

I am eagerly awaiting for the arrival of the Roxon 500 pro but was just wondering how many of you think/feel it is necessary to superprime these new generation of tensor rubbers before you use them,  so that they feel a little broken in from the first time you use them. If you do prime these rubbers what type of glue or method do you use.
 
Is it still acceptable to use old normal (non water based) or speed glue and then let it air out to get rid of the VOC fumes before using it?

thanks in advance
Mars

One word - DONT - its totally not unnecessary.

[Wiz]

Hi Guys,

I am eagerly awaiting for the arrival of the Roxon 500 pro but was just wondering how many of you think/feel it is necessary to superprime these new generation of tensor rubbers before you use them,  so that they feel a little broken in from the first time you use them. If you do prime these rubbers what type of glue or method do you use.
 
Is it still acceptable to use old normal (non water based) or speed glue and then let it air out to get rid of the VOC fumes before using it?

thanks in advance
Mars

These built in speed glue effect rubbers do not need any type of tuning / priming / speed glue. By doing so, it will simply kill the rubber.

You will get the best results from these rubbers by using a non VOC style glue like the Andro Free Glue.

Remember, the reason why these rubbers been developed is to adhere to the Sept 08 speed glue ban, by using any form of VOC glue simply defeats the purpose.

[priior]

is it really necessary to use VOC free regular glue?

a regular rubber cement glued a week before should still do the trick, no?

[Mars63]

Hi Guys,

I am eagerly awaiting for the arrival of the Roxon 500 pro but was just wondering how many of you think/feel it is necessary to superprime these new generation of tensor rubbers before you use them,  so that they feel a little broken in from the first time you use them. If you do prime these rubbers what type of glue or method do you use.
 
Is it still acceptable to use old normal (non water based) or speed glue and then let it air out to get rid of the VOC fumes before using it?

thanks in advance
Mars

One word - DONT - its totally not unnecessary.

Thanks Rob,

This seems different to the advice you gave me when I first moved to the plasma rubbers when you strongly encouraged me to prime these rubbers with 2 layers of normal glue allow to dry and then fix it with another layer to the blade.  I had followed this advice for every new rubber since until I switched to water based glues at the start of this year, since then I have found that the Plasma 470 seemed to take 2-3 very solid training sessions before it felt 100% ready to go.   Is you change in advice based on better rubber characteristic or to ensure compliance with the VOC ban.

I only ask this question because as always I am trying to shorten the learning curve that goes with a swapping equipment.

cheers.

[pingpongrob]

Thanks Rob,

This seems different to the advice you gave me when I first moved to the plasma rubbers when you strongly encouraged me to prime these rubbers with 2 layers of normal glue allow to dry and then fix it with another layer to the blade.  I had followed this advice for every new rubber since until I switched to water based glues at the start of this year, since then I have found that the Plasma 470 seemed to take 2-3 very solid training sessions before it felt 100% ready to go.   Is you change in advice based on better rubber characteristic or to ensure compliance with the VOC ban.

I only ask this question because as always I am trying to shorten the learning curve that goes with a swapping equipment.

cheers.

My advise was, Ïf using thin speedglue, then follow that procedure - so the solvents could evaporate, and the sheet would shrink back down to normal size. The 2 coats, was their so enough of the sticky stuff was left after the solvents evaporated."

Sorry you misunderstood.

[asr1990]

so before i stick my Roxon 500pro onto my blade which glue is the best one to use to do so???


Many Thanks...asr1990

[Silver]

I have a sheet of Roxon 450 courtesy of Rob.

Only played a few times with it so far (4 matches) but it's really nice. Grippy topsheet like the omegas (grippier than the plasmas and destos), but much more flexible and the sponge is much lighter.
Will post a full review after I use it a bit more.

[pingpongrob]

so before i stick my Roxon 500pro onto my blade which glue is the best one to use to do so???


Many Thanks...asr1990

Any of the water based glue will be fine.

[asr1990]

thanks rob,

i will get back to you on my thoughts about the Roxon 500

  i would have added a review sooner as i got the rubber on wednesday but i sprained my wrist

[Wiz]

Now you make me wanting to get the septear,  

Now you got one. ST and weighs in nicely at 78g. Got the shop owner to weigh all 10 of the septears to get you the lightest one.